PFAS Contamination Update with Clean Cape Fear Co-Founder Emily Donavan

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Who would pay for this
epidemiologist?

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I would have Force do power
chemours to to it or would have,

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you know, be funded by the EPA.
So we are requesting that the

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EP.
I mean, the EPA has the

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authority under tusker to
require chemours or Dupont

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whoever they whoever legally is
responsible to pay for the

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studies.
Now, we're not asking that they

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conduct the studies.
We don't want chemours and

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Dupont to conduct the studies.
We want them to pay for

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independent researchers to
conduct the studies.

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We think that that is a more
Equitable and third party and

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justifiable solution than to
require taxpayer funds be used

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for this.
And then one other thing that I

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wanted to point out with this
lawsuit is that we felt like we

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felt an obligation really to the
rest of the country to file this

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appeal.
Because if we let this dismissal

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stand, it is setting a dangerous
and could catastrophic precedent

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with In the EPA.
Welcome to the environmental

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talk with industry leaders,

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Today, each leader solving
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Solutions within the respective
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And here's our host, Sean Grady.
Hello ET Nation.

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so check it out at
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Welcome to the environmental
transformation podcast.

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I'm your host, Sean Grady.
And today's guest is a repeat

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guests.
This.

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She's a returning guest to the
show.

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We're so excited to have Emily
Donovan back.

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And for those of you who haven't
watched or listened to our

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previous episode on the clean
Cape Fear.

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You know, it was a really good
one, but we're going to bring

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her back today.
Get some updates.

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Emily is the co-founder of clean
Cape Fear.

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It's a Grassroots community
group, which form Was formed in

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2017 after learning Dupont
chemours, spent nearly 40 Years

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of releasing, large quantities
of pfos into drinking water

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supply, you know, Wells or not
Wells but into their drinking

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water supply used by over
300,000 North Carolina residents

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in containment over 450 or 4500
private Wells near the

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Fayetteville manufacturing
facility.

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So she's worked tirelessly on
pfos contamination crisis.

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On the national stage, and she's
also been, you know, supporting

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the sum of the lobby day efforts
in, Washington DC and did a post

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live event panel, discussion
with Mark Ruffalo and the lawyer

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of the dark Waters movie, Robert
Palazzo, Emily, that's a lot

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going on.
Thanks for joining the show.

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Looking forward to our
conversation, welcome, it's

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great to be here.
Thank you for having me back.

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Absolutely, absolutely.
So let's do this one.

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Let's do a quick reset for the
new listeners who maybe didn't

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see the or listen to the old
episode.

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Let's talk a little bit about,
you know what, you know, where

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little bit.
Tell us about clean Cape Fear

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and what your mission is.
So, we are like, you said in the

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intro, where a Grassroots
community group, we formed after

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learning about Dupont, and
chemours dumping atrocious

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levels of pee fast and charging,
he water supply.

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And so, for the last nearly six
years, we have really been

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fighting to hold our elected
leaders.

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Accountable government agencies.
Basically everyone that has a

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hand and trying to make our
community whole again we are

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working to Rally them around
this topic and build general,

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public awareness and keep
pushing and keep fighting.

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I mean, the landscape has
changed tremendously from when I

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started we talked about P fast.
Now, as a national topic, it is,

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you know, on the federal, the
federal level, something that we

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are seeing reported More in
National media.

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So it's not just a localized
issue anymore, it's not just a

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couple of contaminated
communities.

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I mean this is a problem that is
so widespread I mean it's it is

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in my mind a global Public
Health crisis and I know I'm not

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alone alone in a feeling that
way.

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Absolutely, I feel the same way.
It's like it's everywhere

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everywhere, including in us and
and that is an, it's in us

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without our consent.
And I think that is the more

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people are aware of just kind of
this sort.

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There's a lot of things that can
keep us up at night and but I

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think this one it really hit our
community hard but it has also

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hit so many other communities
and we're fine.

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We're learning just at even tiny
doses the impact to have chronic

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exposures of this and it's just
the nature of them.

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I mean they're called Forever
chemicals.

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For a reason there is no proven
safe disposable disposal method.

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They are used unfortunately in
nearly everything there's

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limited to no regulations.
And and there's thousands of

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them in commercially.
Yeah right.

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Right now.
They're everywhere, there's ml,

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thousands, thousands of these
things there forever.

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They don't break down the
environment they do cause

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cancers and other human you know
effects and I think we're still

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learning.
We have a lot to learn on what

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those true effects are to our to
our the exposure.

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We're seeing well miss Carter,
I'm sorry.

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You make a really good point
there.

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When you say, I mean this is,
this is a concern is that when

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we look at Us and health
experts.

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They're saying nearly every
system that they test on health

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effects related to pee fast,
exposures, they're finding some

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sort of impact on nearly every
organ system in the human body,

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right?
Right, I mean, that's, you know,

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just watch that dark Waters
movie and your mind just starts

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to go.
It's you can't believe it, you

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know, it's unbelievable.
Well, you know, recently,

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there's been a lot of talk about
the epa's, new proposed,

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drinking water MC else.
How do you think that'll affect

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Cape Fear And chemours in the in
your area?

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All right, you know, this is a
really good first step.

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I mean it will it and when we
put it in perspective there's a

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couple of things that I see play
out.

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I mean, like I said, I attended
the press conference.

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I was given the distinct honor
of introducing administrator

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Regan to make the announcement.
I mean, so this was a huge, I

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think moment not just for our
community, but really, for

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drinking water in the United
States there.

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These mcls which are essentially
drinking water standards,

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they're being proposed for 6p
fast and in the car.

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The thing that I think is
important to understand is that

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it has been decades since the
EPA has issued drinking water

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standards.
I mean, that just shows you the

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Brokenness of this system.
I mean, we are, there are water

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utilities that are still using
World War One technology for

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drinking water clean up.
Up or to clean and filter tap

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water.
I mean, and we're dealing with

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21st century, chemistry and
chemicals.

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And so there's a huge divide and
disconnect between how we are

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serving up drinking water and
the United States versus the

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contamination that's happening.
And the lack of regulations

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around a monitoring for these
contaminants and then be setting

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regulations around them.
So that utilities are held

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accountable for making sure that
they are.

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You detecting noticing and
cleaning them up.

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So that We can protect public
health because I think what we

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forget mean water is free should
be free.

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It is, I mean, we pay a basic
face when I say water is free,

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it's free.
If you go to the, you go to a

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restaurant, you can order a
glass of water and that is free.

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It is it is our basic human,
right?

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So it should be easily
accessible, but it also

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shouldn't be giving us cancer.
Right?

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So what do I think about the,
the current, the, you know, the

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current mcls that are being
proposed MCL stands for maximum

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contaminant levels, which is
Really.

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Again, like I said, another term
for drinking water standards.

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What I think is important about
this for our region is that you

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pretty much our entire Water
Systems.

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There's three big water
districts in our area that serve

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half a million residents and
those Water Systems would

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already be triggered if these
proposed standards were put in

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place tomorrow we would we would
exceed them in our utilities

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would need to intervene and
intervene quickly.

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I mean, the good news is that
we're already doing that the

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Down here, this has been on
their radar for five years, six

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years.
And so they are in the works

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right now of upgrading their
facilities.

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The sad news is that those
upgrades are costing ratepayers

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a ton of money hundreds of
millions of dollars.

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And the burden of that is
falling on the ratepayers.

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It is not falling on the
responsible parties, it's not

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falling on chemours, chemours is
refusing and they are in active

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litigation against paying for
these upgrades.

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And so our utilities are having
to build these Process.

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Put them into place raise rates
so that they can provide the

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service to the community while.
Also suing and fighting to get

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rich, you know, to get the cost
picked up by the responsible

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party.
Now if you're a private well

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honor, it's a different
situation and again aren't the

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scope and magnitude of our
crisis down here is huge it

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spans.
What I want to say like eight

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counties and impacts over 6,000,
private Wells near the Evil

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facility.
It is now impacting private

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Wells as far away as Topsail
Beach and Calabash.

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And for those that don't know,
North Carolina very well.

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That's about 80 miles away from
the facility near the coast.

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It's impacting the water
systems.

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Like I said, half a million who
have who get their water from

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the Cape Fear River.
It's a massive scale and scope

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for the contamination.
If you're on a private, well,

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you do have some protection.
Through a consent agreement,

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that was signed in 2019 that
consent agreement.

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If these, if these drinking
water standards go into effect

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by the EPA, that would actually
open up some more resources, to

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some private, well, owners in
our region.

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And so, there is some benefit to
making sure that that this these

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drinking water standards, get
approved.

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And you can also see because it
would directly benefit the

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community that we can imagine.
The industry is not interested

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in.
I can getting these past and

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00:11:28,700 --> 00:11:30,900
we're starting to see signals in
the media that they're fighting

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back.
There's that right?

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00:11:32,500 --> 00:11:34,700
Well I mean it's probably not a
surprise.

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00:11:34,700 --> 00:11:39,000
I mean for four parts per
trillion is a very low number to

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00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:43,200
achieve for cleanup standard for
most, you know.

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00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:46,100
Well, even for typical treatment
systems, even good treatment

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00:11:46,100 --> 00:11:47,600
system.
That's a very low number.

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00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:55,000
I mean, it is a shame to see
that the consumer of the the

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00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:58,300
residents of these communities
of these The communities are the

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00:11:58,300 --> 00:12:01,300
ones paying for all of this
infrastructure upgrade into

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00:12:01,300 --> 00:12:04,400
these treatment facilities.
When the polluters there, you

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00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:08,200
know, fighting against you know,
supporting local communities and

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00:12:08,500 --> 00:12:11,700
not really being a good
corporate Steward are a Citizens

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00:12:11,700 --> 00:12:15,800
that, you know, it's just really
a shame and that that's

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00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:18,500
happening.
So I like that there's new

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00:12:18,500 --> 00:12:21,700
limits that are being proposed.
Do they go far enough?

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00:12:21,700 --> 00:12:26,000
Do we really have the best?
You know I mean do we have

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00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:29,700
enough science that says Should
be more than six or, you know, I

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00:12:29,700 --> 00:12:35,300
think we need more, you know,
and I'm just really concerned

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about that.
I think, you know, there

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recently were for Community
Environmental Group petitions,

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and petitioning, the EPA to
require chemours to conduct

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critical.
EP epidemiology studies on, you

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know, fifty four of these toxic
chemicals.

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That puts a lot of, you know,
residents in North Carolina at

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risk.
You know, can you update us on

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00:12:56,200 --> 00:13:00,100
that petition?
And that you guys submitted and

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why, you know, why was it
dismissed?

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Because that's basically the big
aha update.

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But why was it this dismissed?
And what impact will that have

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on the community and others?
Yeah, I'm having to do that.

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You know what?
I'd love to Circle back and just

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finish up a thread from the
earlier question.

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You raised a really great point
about is this enough addressing

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just 6p fasts and you're
absolutely right, it's not

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enough.
And one thing that we work we

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requested in my public Comments,
when I was introducing the

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administrator during the Press
event was that we needed to

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class approach.
We need to regulate as a class

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and we need a
whole-of-government approach.

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We need more than just the EPA
working to address this.

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We need every level and layer of
government addressing this P,

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fast contamination crisis.
So that we are constantly

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readdressing it, every five
every ten years.

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And then, another thing I wanted
to point out is you said, is it

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Is it enough?
I mean four parts per trillion.

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Absolutely.
Like you just said low and

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there's some of the lowest
detective levels or detection

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levels that utilities are being
hit with.

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Here's one benefit of that.
Is that if we're treating for PS

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at that level than likely
utilities will be cleaning out

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and treating other container.
Contaminants.

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Absolutely yeah.
Heard the level and quality of

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drinking water is going to get
exponential very quickly.

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So these are, I think important
Investments to be made, I think

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it is important to About the
cost.

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One, other thing to remember, is
that last June of last year, the

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EPA issued interim Health
advisories for pfoa and pfos.

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Which when you refer to them,
being with the proposed,

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drinking water standard is for
parts, per trillion for PFO a

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mpf OS, but the health advisory,
which was based solely on just

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the health science said that
they needed to be below.

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Like, like, zero zero point.
Yet me, they were.

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They were hugely low.
Past it level of detection, that

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is the health level.
And so, the proposal of four

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parts per trillion is accounting
for feasibility, it is not

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solely based on health, it is
feasibility.

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So I think that is a humbling
reality that we need to address

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is that if we really are
interested in health that level

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should be 0, but because we know
that utilities, it's difficult.

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There's a little bit of wiggle
room to get to zero level.

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They're recommending for, as the
And I think it's a nuanced, we

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detail, but it is a very
important detail when we're

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talking about public health and
my mind.

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Yeah, I mean, essentially non
detect is a really hard, you

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know, achievable I mean, is it
really achievable in today's,

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you know, world the way, you
know, we see so many of these

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chemicals out there, you bring
up a good point about, you know,

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the byproduct of treating other
chemicals to non-detect limits.

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Or you know, such low detections
because you're treating for pfos

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is a benefit to to all right.
So I totally agree with you

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00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:07,600
there.
I think that's great.

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00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:14,900
Today's podcast is sponsored by
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294
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295
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297
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and b.com that's EnV.com.
I have a question for you about,

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00:17:03,500 --> 00:17:07,000
you know, should we establish or
should the EPA establish a class

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00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:11,200
of pfos chemicals to account for
more short chain or, you know,

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00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:14,000
launching variants that are in
the list of six?

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00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:15,700
I mean there's thousands of
these.

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So you know what should we do?
Should we do a class?

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00:17:18,700 --> 00:17:22,200
Like we do with Pete, you know,
pcbs PCB does a class like so

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00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:23,700
why don't?
I mean there's already pressing

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it in this approach.
Anyways has there been talk that

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you know of within EPA about
establishing classes Well, I

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00:17:32,208 --> 00:17:35,700
can't speak on, what's Happening
inside the EPA, but I can say

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that when we look at the 6p fast
that were proposed for drinking

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water standards to PFO, a mpf LS
were given mcls of four parts

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00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:49,700
per trillion.
The other four PCS were treated

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as a mixture, which is kind of
moving into that class basic

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slow, walk there, but it is
definitely acknowledging that

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this is the direction they want
to go in.

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So now, you know, me who raised
my children on this contaminated

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tap water, who has seen friends
and loved ones die.

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I'm never going to be satisfied
until something happens like

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00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:17,400
yesterday, but that is not the
world we live in and that is not

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00:18:17,500 --> 00:18:19,900
realistic.
So we have to live in the

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00:18:19,900 --> 00:18:22,800
reality that we have before us,
which is here's what we.

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00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:25,900
Here's the arena, we can play in
and the Rena that we can play in

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00:18:25,900 --> 00:18:28,200
is we need a class based
approach.

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00:18:28,500 --> 00:18:30,900
We have this current
Administration and this current

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00:18:30,900 --> 00:18:35,100
EPA Is showing a commitment to
get us closer.

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And we as residents United
States, need to hold the line

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00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:42,600
and continue to hold our
Regulators accountable and say

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00:18:42,900 --> 00:18:46,100
give us what we deserve which is
which is Health.

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00:18:46,100 --> 00:18:48,900
Protective drinking water, not
just clear drinking water.

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00:18:49,100 --> 00:18:54,200
Yeah yeah you know when I travel
the u.s. for work and other

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00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:59,500
things, there are so many
communities that don't really

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00:18:59,900 --> 00:19:03,600
see.
This issue popping up on their

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00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:05,000
radar?
I mean there, they don't feel

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00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:08,800
like or they maybe not even
aware that this is a, you know,

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00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:13,800
a global, you know issue like,
you know, existential threat to

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00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:16,500
society in a sense, right?
I mean because they're not

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00:19:16,500 --> 00:19:20,400
affected like, you know, they're
not, they don't live in an area

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00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:24,400
that, you know, we're a chemical
industry, you know, facility was

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00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:27,000
discharging these types of
chemicals and exposures, Grant

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00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,000
it.
We all know that people are do

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00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,500
have exposures through the
products that they're buying and

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00:19:31,500 --> 00:19:34,300
they I'll realize it, we then
that's the problem, right?

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And I think, the more that we
can do to elevate the awareness

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to the everyday citizen in the
u.s., I mean, because again, a

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00:19:42,808 --> 00:19:45,800
lot of people aren't recognizing
this as a true threat.

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But people are in your
communities and others that are

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00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:51,800
exposed.
I mean, this is a major

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00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:55,100
situation, it's in, it's not
affecting just health issues.

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00:19:55,100 --> 00:19:58,200
I mean, think about the property
issues of property, you know,

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00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,400
values of homes that like nobody
wants to live in those areas.

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00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,500
It's Like you know, you it's
really it's really having an

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00:20:05,500 --> 00:20:07,900
impact you know, economically as
well.

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00:20:09,300 --> 00:20:11,700
You know, it's interesting that
you say that because down in our

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00:20:11,700 --> 00:20:14,100
area because we're on the coast
were kind of an outlier.

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We've had that I think Brunswick
County, the county that I live

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in is fastest growing County are
one of the fastest, growing

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00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:22,900
counties in the nation.
Definitely, the fastest growing

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00:20:22,900 --> 00:20:25,500
County and the state.
And I think Wilmington last

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00:20:25,500 --> 00:20:28,900
year, topped, the list of most
move to cities.

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00:20:30,100 --> 00:20:31,600
Okay.
So it's not stop.

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00:20:32,700 --> 00:20:35,500
It is.
And you know, some of that I

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00:20:35,500 --> 00:20:38,600
think is that where it's we're
not, we're not next to the

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00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:42,200
facility and see if Pua has will
see it.

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00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,200
When I say cfp, why?
It's Cape Fear, Public Utility

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00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:46,700
Authority.
It's the water district that

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00:20:46,700 --> 00:20:50,300
serves the city of Wilmington.
They've already they've already

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00:20:50,300 --> 00:20:55,200
installed their upgrades and so
the drinking water is is nearly

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00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,500
pee fast free.
I think they've gotten it down

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00:20:57,500 --> 00:21:00,100
to levels of non detect to get
there.

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It's been a huge engineering.
Feet and its cost a lot of money

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00:21:04,100 --> 00:21:05,600
but they've been able to do
that.

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00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:08,000
The, the other thing that I
wanted to point out that you

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00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,900
raised is, you know, there's
there's there's the cost the

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00:21:11,900 --> 00:21:14,200
cost of Health.
I mean I'm we hear constantly of

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00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:18,200
communities that would
absolutely love to have health

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00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:22,500
protective and and and the best
available drinking water but

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00:21:22,500 --> 00:21:24,600
they live in a town or a
community that just doesn't have

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00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:27,500
the resources to do it.
And so I will say that I am

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00:21:27,500 --> 00:21:30,900
impressed that the Biden
Administration and Congress last

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00:21:30,900 --> 00:21:34,700
year.
Past the infrastructure, the

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00:21:34,700 --> 00:21:38,200
infrastructure act that is
giving money and it specifically

381
00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:41,900
carved out funds for p fast,
remediation of utilities.

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00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,800
Now, is that enough money?
No, it's not enough money, but

383
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:47,600
it is money for communities that
need it.

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00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:52,400
Like, in our situation, we don't
need taxpayer funds to clean out

385
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,300
our drinking water.
We know who broke our water.

386
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:57,900
We know who trashed it looted,
it who points.

387
00:21:58,700 --> 00:22:03,800
We need our Regulators to Use
every tool in the regulatory

388
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:07,700
tool box to hold that, polluter
accountable, and we need them to

389
00:22:07,700 --> 00:22:09,700
do that Across the Nation in
other communities.

390
00:22:09,700 --> 00:22:12,200
And so one benefit of having
these drinking water standards.

391
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,600
If they get approved in the
public comment, period is open

392
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:19,100
right now and I highly encourage
everyone to go and give public

393
00:22:19,100 --> 00:22:23,400
comment in support of these
mcls, 4p, fast is that when this

394
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:28,000
is approved, it is going to
require utilities to start

395
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:31,900
monitoring and testing regularly
for these contaminants and This

396
00:22:31,900 --> 00:22:34,800
is how communities will know if
they have this in their tap

397
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:37,000
water because again when you're
not monitoring and you're not

398
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:41,800
testing yeah you don't know.
Yeah and so this is this is a

399
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:44,700
real great way to start this
company.

400
00:22:44,700 --> 00:22:46,900
You know, to open the
conversation and start really

401
00:22:46,900 --> 00:22:49,400
addressing a public health
threat that has been flying on

402
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,600
the radar for decades, which we
saw and the movie with Mark

403
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,900
Ruffalo about Rob blah.
Yeah, right.

404
00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:01,600
I know that that movie was
transformational for me just

405
00:23:01,700 --> 00:23:05,900
Watching it and really rubbing
my head around the the magnitude

406
00:23:05,900 --> 00:23:08,500
of pfos contamination in our
country who actually it

407
00:23:08,500 --> 00:23:10,700
worldwide.
Because, you know, I know in

408
00:23:10,700 --> 00:23:15,200
Europe, they're facing similar
scenarios of contaminated pfos,

409
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:19,200
watersheds from, you know,
similar companies just like the

410
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,600
ones here doing the same thing
there and also you know, in

411
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,900
Australia and others.
So it is a big issue and if it's

412
00:23:25,900 --> 00:23:28,300
not that it's you know, the
firefighting foam is from

413
00:23:28,300 --> 00:23:30,900
military installations and
things like that that are also

414
00:23:30,900 --> 00:23:34,200
having Major impacts.
And what's interesting is the

415
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,700
federal government's involved
with all of the feather you know

416
00:23:36,700 --> 00:23:39,400
the military operations is.
So there are the responsible

417
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:41,400
party.
It's not the actual, you know,

418
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,400
chemical manufacturer.
It's the actual users of the

419
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:48,900
chemicals and and so me and
that's got to be a fine line

420
00:23:48,900 --> 00:23:52,900
between, you know, you know, a
military federal government

421
00:23:52,900 --> 00:23:56,000
installation, you know, and then
all you've got the regulatory

422
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,200
body of EPA.
Also, you know, trying to

423
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:01,000
establish rules.
And hey, you're going to

424
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:05,000
regulate Our own company, you
know, our own internal business,

425
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:09,200
the government's essentially in
one business to another.

426
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:10,700
It's essentially is what's
happening here.

427
00:24:10,700 --> 00:24:15,100
I mean, agency to another, I
mean, it's interesting how this

428
00:24:15,100 --> 00:24:19,000
is going to play out, but I
think the overall benefits of

429
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:22,100
having the new MCL is going to
be major the.

430
00:24:22,100 --> 00:24:27,300
They also establishing it as a,
you know, a toxic hazardous

431
00:24:27,300 --> 00:24:30,100
balloon is going to be big,
especially for circle of because

432
00:24:30,100 --> 00:24:34,400
now means, like, New money will
be able to be available for

433
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:36,500
going in addressing.
Remedial cleanups.

434
00:24:38,100 --> 00:24:40,700
For a lot of these contaminated
sites that aren't there now.

435
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,500
Yeah, and I'm glad you brought
that up because I think that's

436
00:24:43,500 --> 00:24:47,700
an important detail is that if
this Administration continues on

437
00:24:47,700 --> 00:24:51,700
its path, which I think they
just recently released

438
00:24:51,900 --> 00:24:55,300
designating certain pee fast as
hazardous substance.

439
00:24:55,300 --> 00:24:58,600
And again, that unlocks
Superfund law and Superfund law

440
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:03,000
is the, is the mechanism in
which the EPA can go and tell

441
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,700
the responsible party, you need
to pay for this cleanup.

442
00:25:06,100 --> 00:25:08,300
And so again, if we really want
to see A Justice.

443
00:25:08,500 --> 00:25:11,500
And if we really want to achieve
Equity, these are the things we

444
00:25:11,500 --> 00:25:12,900
do.
So, I think there's a strong

445
00:25:12,900 --> 00:25:16,000
appetite in the United States.
I think Americans, regardless of

446
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:20,800
political Spectrum, at least in
our community, really want to

447
00:25:20,808 --> 00:25:22,400
see corporations held
accountable.

448
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,700
That is the one thing that we
are united on is that

449
00:25:24,700 --> 00:25:26,500
corporations should be held
accountable.

450
00:25:26,900 --> 00:25:29,000
Yeah, amen.
I approve, I totally agree with

451
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,900
that with that.
Well, let's double back on my

452
00:25:31,900 --> 00:25:33,800
one.
Previous question that we kind

453
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,000
of double backed on a brief.
Another question about the

454
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,300
update.
Task a petition and, you know,

455
00:25:40,300 --> 00:25:42,900
the outcome of that and why it
was dismissed.

456
00:25:43,100 --> 00:25:48,000
And I have some questions about
the, if the judge should have

457
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:52,000
recused himself, from being a
lifelong resident of the

458
00:25:52,008 --> 00:25:54,600
community.
And I'm thinking, wow, it just,

459
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:58,500
it looks a little, like, he
almost had decide the other way,

460
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:05,300
you know, that's just my, I
guess, you know, Unbiased view

461
00:26:05,300 --> 00:26:07,400
or whatnot.
But anyway, I'd like to hear

462
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:08,800
your thoughts.
Yeah.

463
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:13,000
Well, we, we had we had a brief
day in court.

464
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:17,400
On Valentine's Day of this this
past year and or, you know, this

465
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:22,000
last Valentine's Day where where
the judge was, was hearing the

466
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,600
grounds to dismiss EPA.
I think this was probably the

467
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:28,400
most frustrating and devastating
aspect of our Tosca litigation

468
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:33,700
is that the the EPA was asking
to dismiss our lawsuit and To

469
00:26:33,708 --> 00:26:35,600
give a little background for
everybody.

470
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,400
But we filed a petition under
the Trump Administration, using

471
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:44,300
the toxic substance Control Act
or other words, which we call

472
00:26:44,300 --> 00:26:49,300
Tosca and under Tosca, it offers
a chance for communities to

473
00:26:49,300 --> 00:26:53,600
petition the EPA to to seek out
health studies, where health

474
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,800
studies are not available.
We identified 54p fast that were

475
00:26:56,808 --> 00:26:59,500
coming specifically from
chemours that we'd found in

476
00:26:59,500 --> 00:27:03,300
blood, human blood and food and
the air and the soil.

477
00:27:03,300 --> 00:27:07,400
And in the Making water and we
were asking to have access to

478
00:27:07,700 --> 00:27:11,900
health, study toxicity studies
on those chemicals as well as

479
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,600
mixture studies because again we
didn't drink these and one

480
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,800
chemical at a time.
We drank them in a whole

481
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:22,800
cocktail of toxic chemicals.
And what does the additive

482
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,900
effect have on the human body?
And then also we were already

483
00:27:25,900 --> 00:27:28,200
exposed for decades?
Yeah.

484
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:32,500
And so we're asking for our a
longitudal human epidemiological

485
00:27:32,500 --> 00:27:35,200
study similar.
Allure in model to the C8

486
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,900
science panel, that was done in
Parkersburg West Virginia.

487
00:27:37,900 --> 00:27:43,000
Yep, as we know, like we know
like, you know, let's get past

488
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:47,000
all the road and studies and the
guinea pigs and let's study the

489
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,800
real guinea pigs in the room,
which was our families and our

490
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,800
community, so that we can get a
Fighting Chance at

491
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:55,900
understanding.
What some of these illnesses are

492
00:27:55,900 --> 00:27:57,900
that we're seeing in our
community, we're seeing

493
00:27:58,300 --> 00:28:01,100
recurrent cancers.
That should be treated with

494
00:28:01,100 --> 00:28:03,500
conventional therapies that are
just not.

495
00:28:03,900 --> 00:28:07,600
They're just not working, we're
seeing rare cancers.

496
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:11,900
I mean, we're seeing really,
really odd, odd diseases and

497
00:28:11,900 --> 00:28:15,400
illnesses in Residence far too.
Young to pass off as normal.

498
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,200
And so we're sounding the alarm
locally and saying this doesn't

499
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,300
feel right.
This is too much illness to be

500
00:28:21,300 --> 00:28:23,300
normal.
You need to come and study us.

501
00:28:23,300 --> 00:28:24,900
You need to give us access to
cancer.

502
00:28:24,900 --> 00:28:27,500
Registries, you need to look at
these kinds of cancer.

503
00:28:27,500 --> 00:28:31,900
Registries by our water
districts and zip codes not by

504
00:28:31,900 --> 00:28:34,800
our County, where that
information, Gets diluted and

505
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:38,600
you definitely don't need to
compare us against ourselves,

506
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,000
which dilutes the data you need
to compare this against

507
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,300
communities in North Carolina
that weren't exposed to pee fast

508
00:28:44,300 --> 00:28:46,600
chronically for decades so that
we can really see what's

509
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:48,500
happening.
And so we're not getting access

510
00:28:48,500 --> 00:28:51,100
to any of those health studies.
And so that's what formed we

511
00:28:51,100 --> 00:28:54,300
formed this Coalition with
Center for environmental health,

512
00:28:54,300 --> 00:28:58,400
Cape Fear River, Watch and
toxic-free Inc and so the four

513
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,200
of us came together and we
formed this petition.

514
00:29:01,700 --> 00:29:06,400
We asked the the EPA The Trump
EPA to Grant it.

515
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,300
They denied it then the
administration changed.

516
00:29:09,300 --> 00:29:11,100
So we said, let's try with the
by an Administration.

517
00:29:11,100 --> 00:29:14,500
See what happens.
We we resubmitted to the Biden

518
00:29:14,500 --> 00:29:17,800
Administration and they told us
that they granted it but then

519
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,600
when we went and read through
the the granting, they granted

520
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:26,100
3% of our requests.
So 97% of the tests that we

521
00:29:26,100 --> 00:29:29,700
requested they didn't they
denied or they ignored.

522
00:29:29,900 --> 00:29:34,400
And so we sued under under a
section with In Tosca.

523
00:29:34,500 --> 00:29:38,500
And so, we went into litigation
and the EPA immediately filed to

524
00:29:38,500 --> 00:29:41,500
dismiss the lawsuit.
So, that's what happened around

525
00:29:41,500 --> 00:29:45,000
Valentine's Day is that we were
sitting in this courtroom

526
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,000
listening to the judge and the
judge I will give credit to

527
00:29:48,300 --> 00:29:51,400
judge Myers is that he was very
honest, and he was very

528
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,100
transparent, and he said this is
hard.

529
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:59,200
I know that I need to be, I need
to be as transparent as

530
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:02,200
possible, because I was also
raised in this community, but I

531
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,600
also need to follow the law.
And so, what happened in this

532
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:09,200
particular case is that the
judge was asking the question of

533
00:30:09,500 --> 00:30:14,400
does, the court have the legal
authority to or jurisdiction

534
00:30:14,700 --> 00:30:18,100
over deciding if a petition has
been granted or not?

535
00:30:18,100 --> 00:30:22,500
And the question came down to
did, we file one petition, or

536
00:30:22,500 --> 00:30:27,900
did we file 54 petitions was,
you know, an individual petition

537
00:30:27,900 --> 00:30:30,300
for each chemical that we were
asking to be tested.

538
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,500
We argued that we were, we filed
54.

539
00:30:33,700 --> 00:30:37,500
For many petitions within one,
big document, the EPA said no

540
00:30:37,500 --> 00:30:41,100
sorry they filed one petition.
The EPA said we granted it

541
00:30:41,100 --> 00:30:44,200
because we created a national
testing strategy and that that

542
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,600
National testing strategy will
give this community what they

543
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,400
need and that is the furthest
thing from the truth.

544
00:30:50,500 --> 00:30:53,900
I believe that we heard is that
no the national testing strategy

545
00:30:53,900 --> 00:30:59,300
is a is a program that is
helping inform the EPA on how to

546
00:30:59,300 --> 00:31:03,100
regulate P fasts.
But that program is not giving

547
00:31:03,100 --> 00:31:05,500
us access.
Us to the P fast.

548
00:31:05,500 --> 00:31:07,600
Doom.
Yeah, the epidemiology data you

549
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,300
want to see, you know, how
exposure has affected the

550
00:31:10,308 --> 00:31:13,700
community, the especially in the
pee fast that are in our blood

551
00:31:13,700 --> 00:31:18,600
right now, right?
So so we we decided as a group

552
00:31:18,700 --> 00:31:21,300
that we were going to appeal.
And so we actually filed the

553
00:31:21,300 --> 00:31:24,800
appeal today.
And, and so that is that is

554
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,000
happening.
So we are we are moving into

555
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:31,700
another District in the court
system to try and get to try and

556
00:31:31,700 --> 00:31:39,100
get this overturned.
Did you know e-tank is the only

557
00:31:39,100 --> 00:31:41,700
environmental Rental Equipment
company in the industry that

558
00:31:41,700 --> 00:31:45,200
offers a 100% certified clean
guarantee and no additional

559
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:47,300
cost.
Well this gives customers the

560
00:31:47,300 --> 00:31:49,800
Peace of Mind knowing that
container contents from the

561
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,600
previous renter, isn't going to
cross contaminate the contents

562
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,300
of the current customer and
potentially cause liability

563
00:31:55,300 --> 00:31:56,900
concerns.
You know.

564
00:31:56,900 --> 00:32:00,000
E-tank also provides a
one-of-a-kind complete

565
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,300
maintenance program for all its
rental items, including liquid,

566
00:32:03,300 --> 00:32:06,900
tight roll off containers, fluid
transfer pumps, and filtration

567
00:32:07,100 --> 00:32:10,700
System components to learn more
about the types of containers at

568
00:32:10,700 --> 00:32:12,200
pump.
See tank supplies.

569
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,700
Check out their website at
www.esa.int.

570
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,100
So, the next time you are faced
with an environmentally

571
00:32:19,100 --> 00:32:23,200
challenging project, give e-tank
a call to help solve your

572
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,100
problem.
It's just that easy.

573
00:32:28,700 --> 00:32:31,200
Well, that's encouraging.
And I mean to that extent like a

574
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,400
the fights still going.
We're you know we're going to

575
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,400
continue this fight.
It just doesn't make sense.

576
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:40,400
I think there's already
precedent that the EPA have

577
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,700
granted this type of a study now
I think it's it was more.

578
00:32:43,700 --> 00:32:47,900
The court was forcing do Ponte
to do the, the pay for it.

579
00:32:47,900 --> 00:32:51,600
Now, how is this change?
I mean, is this who would pay

580
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,800
for this epidemiologist?
I would have Force do power

581
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:58,100
chemours to to it or would have,
you know, be funded by the EPA.

582
00:32:59,100 --> 00:33:01,300
So we are requesting that the
EP.

583
00:33:01,300 --> 00:33:04,900
I mean, the EPA has the
authority under Tosca to require

584
00:33:04,900 --> 00:33:09,200
chemours or Dupont whoever they
whoever legally is responsible

585
00:33:09,700 --> 00:33:12,900
to pay for the studies.
Now we're not asking that they

586
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,300
conduct the studies.
We don't want chemours and

587
00:33:16,300 --> 00:33:19,200
Dupont to conduct the studies.
We want them to pay for

588
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,600
independent researchers to
conduct the studies.

589
00:33:21,900 --> 00:33:27,100
We think that that is a more
Equitable and third party and

590
00:33:27,100 --> 00:33:31,800
justifiable And then to require
taxpayer funds be used for this.

591
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,500
And then one of the things that
I wanted to point out with this

592
00:33:34,500 --> 00:33:39,300
lawsuit is that, we felt like we
felt an obligation really to the

593
00:33:39,300 --> 00:33:41,300
rest of the country to file this
appeal.

594
00:33:41,300 --> 00:33:45,700
Because if we let this dismissal
stand, it is setting a dangerous

595
00:33:45,900 --> 00:33:49,700
and could catastrophic precedent
within the EPA because what this

596
00:33:49,700 --> 00:33:52,700
would mean is that future
administrations could take the

597
00:33:52,700 --> 00:33:56,100
toss competition and say
publicly that they granted it

598
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:59,200
when they barely granted
anything in, I'm only they could

599
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:05,000
say they granted it and then and
then bury citizens ability to

600
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,199
find any sort of legal recourse
for that granting of the

601
00:34:08,199 --> 00:34:10,300
petition especially when work
wasn't done.

602
00:34:10,699 --> 00:34:15,400
And so we feel that this needs
to be looked at and it needs to

603
00:34:15,500 --> 00:34:19,300
it needs to be reassessed.
Otherwise this is this we think

604
00:34:19,300 --> 00:34:22,800
is going to have long-standing
repercussions for the for the

605
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:24,000
nation.
Yeah.

606
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:25,900
No, I agree.
I agree.

607
00:34:28,100 --> 00:34:30,100
Well, I'm glad you guys are
fighting that and continuing

608
00:34:30,100 --> 00:34:33,199
that the peole and let's see
where that goes.

609
00:34:33,199 --> 00:34:37,000
And so hopefully the new judge
that it will be assigned to will

610
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:42,400
be a little more, you know, I
guess sympathetic or

611
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,000
understanding of the the
requirements here or the

612
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,600
expectation here that the really
protect the citizens citizens

613
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:53,000
there, what are your concerns
around the this nrdc study that

614
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,900
was released a you know and how
they don't really address the

615
00:34:57,100 --> 00:35:01,800
Jane pfos chemicals that are
going to go unmonitored, you

616
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,000
know?
Yeah, I'm glad you brought that

617
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,600
up.
So, last week that are two weeks

618
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:11,000
ago, the nrdc launched, a
peer-reviewed study, and in a

619
00:35:11,008 --> 00:35:13,600
scientific journal.
And we participated in that, we

620
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:17,800
submitted two samples, one from
Oak Island and one from Ocean

621
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,500
Isle and Brunswick County and
what was what was shocking and

622
00:35:21,500 --> 00:35:24,400
alarming, I mean, we kind of
knew we've known for a while.

623
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:28,600
We've got a lot of different P
fast and Are our tap water,

624
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,100
consistently appears to have
some of the highest P, fash

625
00:35:32,100 --> 00:35:35,500
p-pass pollution, and the nation
per multiple Nationwide studies.

626
00:35:35,900 --> 00:35:39,200
So we kind of figured we would
be somewhere in the mix again.

627
00:35:39,300 --> 00:35:43,500
We were topping the charts just
having the most unmonitored pee

628
00:35:43,500 --> 00:35:47,400
fast in our tap water.
And at, at some of the highest

629
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:51,700
levels there was, there was a
sample from Maine that had just

630
00:35:51,700 --> 00:35:56,700
atrocious levels of P fast but
the majority of the PFS in in

631
00:35:56,700 --> 00:35:58,900
that Ample is currently being
monitored.

632
00:35:58,900 --> 00:36:03,500
And so, for this particular
instance, what made our samples

633
00:36:03,500 --> 00:36:05,500
unique is that these were
unmonitored pee fast.

634
00:36:05,500 --> 00:36:08,500
And some of them are really
Ultra short chain P fast.

635
00:36:08,500 --> 00:36:10,600
So, when we talk about
short-chain, we're talking about

636
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:15,400
the carbon-fluorine bond.
So, like, pfoa pfos so stuff to

637
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,600
see 8, that's 8,
carbon-fluorine, bonds, and

638
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:22,300
then, and then when you get down
to Gen X, that's considered

639
00:36:22,300 --> 00:36:25,200
short chain, that's like a C6.
And now we're talking about

640
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:30,400
Ultra short chains, which are
kind of Of in the C2 C4 range.

641
00:36:30,700 --> 00:36:36,300
So, we actually in this study
found previously unmonitored pee

642
00:36:36,300 --> 00:36:40,500
fast and that none of our
utilities had been testing for,

643
00:36:40,500 --> 00:36:46,200
it was like called pfp ra, and
pfp are a was showing up, not

644
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:49,400
just, if it was in the highest
concentration, it was, it was

645
00:36:49,700 --> 00:36:52,100
one of the highest
concentrations of pahs and

646
00:36:52,100 --> 00:36:56,000
Arctic Waters water samples but
also throughout the whole entire

647
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,700
study.
Was showing up in Water Systems

648
00:36:58,700 --> 00:37:02,100
all over the nation and
utilities weren't testing for

649
00:37:02,100 --> 00:37:05,200
it.
Now I need to explain that the

650
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:09,000
utilities down in my area have
been voluntarily.

651
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:12,800
Testing for more pee fast than
what the EPA recommends a

652
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:14,700
requires.
And we're doing that because we

653
00:37:14,700 --> 00:37:19,200
know that we have a huge
contributor of pollution with

654
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:21,500
the Fayetteville facility
chemours is Fayetteville

655
00:37:21,500 --> 00:37:24,900
facility.
And so it was shocking to find a

656
00:37:24,900 --> 00:37:29,900
pee fast that they weren't I'm
testing for why this is

657
00:37:29,900 --> 00:37:33,600
important for the nation.
And not just North Carolina, is

658
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:38,000
that the EPA is again only
proposing drinking water

659
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:42,900
standards for 6p fast out of a
universe of tens of thousands.

660
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:47,700
The EPA has issued an
unregulated contaminant

661
00:37:47,700 --> 00:37:49,800
monitoring role.
And so in the next couple of

662
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:54,100
years, utilities are going to be
sampling for 29, different P

663
00:37:54,100 --> 00:37:59,500
fast and again, Part 5, right?
That's the issue more five role,

664
00:37:59,500 --> 00:38:04,000
which they do every two years
and so they've added 29, pfos

665
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,500
limits there or you don't get
constituents there.

666
00:38:06,500 --> 00:38:10,100
Of course, that's not enough but
I mean it's 29, it's better than

667
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:12,100
39 before.
And then if you look at this

668
00:38:12,100 --> 00:38:16,000
nrdc study, the nrdc study is
basically saying that was not

669
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,300
enough.
If you really want to see the

670
00:38:18,300 --> 00:38:22,500
scope of contamination across
the United States, you need you

671
00:38:22,500 --> 00:38:25,300
need to test for the pee fast as
a class.

672
00:38:25,500 --> 00:38:28,700
And so again here we get To we
need to regulate pee fast as a

673
00:38:28,700 --> 00:38:31,100
class, we need to monitor for p
fast as a class.

674
00:38:31,300 --> 00:38:33,500
And until we do that, we're not
going to see the full scope of

675
00:38:33,500 --> 00:38:36,100
contamination.
And again, why does this matter

676
00:38:36,500 --> 00:38:39,800
to communities?
It matters when you get down to

677
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,400
treatment technology.
So we have all of these

678
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:46,300
communities Across the Nation
that are starting to plan on

679
00:38:46,300 --> 00:38:50,300
investing in, in water,
infrastructure upgrades, and

680
00:38:50,300 --> 00:38:53,600
they're having to figure out.
Well, what, what sister, what

681
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,800
technology do I use?
And what am I treating?

682
00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:58,500
Art's.
What is that standard?

683
00:38:58,500 --> 00:39:01,800
I'm trying to achieve.
And so we take Wilmington's

684
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:06,200
water district, for example.
So, see if Pua is treating for

685
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:11,600
ultrashort, team chain P fast.
That means that they invested 46

686
00:39:12,100 --> 00:39:17,700
40 to 46 million dollars in in
granulated activated carbon very

687
00:39:17,700 --> 00:39:21,000
deep bed, granulated activated
carbon filters and their

688
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:25,400
regenerating those and
recharging them on a very quick

689
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:27,600
schedule.
And so Really, they're changing

690
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:31,600
the filters out very frequently
so that they can make sure that

691
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:36,200
the ultra short chain key, fast
are not passing through into the

692
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:40,700
tap water.
Now, if they're not required to

693
00:39:40,700 --> 00:39:43,100
test for Ultra short, chain P
fast, then they wouldn't be

694
00:39:43,100 --> 00:39:44,800
changing their filters out as
much.

695
00:39:45,100 --> 00:39:48,300
That would, that would mean that
our rates would be lower.

696
00:39:48,900 --> 00:39:51,400
But that would also mean the
trade-off is we would have

697
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:52,900
polisher.
Yeah.

698
00:39:52,900 --> 00:39:55,500
Right.
And we don't really know or

699
00:39:55,500 --> 00:39:59,000
understand the Impacts the
health effects of shortchange.

700
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:02,700
Pfos chemicals, right?
Gravy that there's not enough

701
00:40:02,700 --> 00:40:04,700
data are out there right now,
too.

702
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:10,300
Give an indication of its
really, as toxic or more toxic,

703
00:40:10,300 --> 00:40:11,900
or it does have health effects
mean.

704
00:40:11,900 --> 00:40:13,800
We're still wanting to know that
information, right?

705
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,700
Because we believe, since it's
connected to pfos, you know,

706
00:40:16,700 --> 00:40:19,300
typical long chain ones.
It's got to have an effect,

707
00:40:19,300 --> 00:40:20,400
right?
I mean, it's our that's, we're

708
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,300
going to think like that, right?
Well, I think we do two things.

709
00:40:23,300 --> 00:40:27,700
Number one, when you don't know,
you exercise precaution because

710
00:40:27,700 --> 00:40:30,700
again, drinking water is a basic
human, right?

711
00:40:30,700 --> 00:40:32,400
And it is a public health
entity.

712
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:34,900
And so, if you don't know, it's
safe.

713
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:37,200
'F.
It does not belong in anyone's

714
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:39,600
tap water.
So we exercise precaution.

715
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,300
So what see if POA is doing is
exactly correct.

716
00:40:42,300 --> 00:40:45,200
They are saying we will spend
the money to make sure because

717
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:48,400
we don't know if this is safe at
any level, we're going to make

718
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:52,100
sure no level is in there.
Now, on the other side, we ask

719
00:40:52,100 --> 00:40:57,900
ourselves if we if we lack the
data just because we don't have

720
00:40:57,900 --> 00:41:01,000
the data or just because it's
short chain, short chain doesn't

721
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:03,600
mean it's safe to drink.
I know sometimes I've heard

722
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:06,600
industry say.
Well, short, train pee fast,

723
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:09,700
don't bio accumulate.
And one of the best analogies

724
00:41:09,700 --> 00:41:11,900
that I like is from a couple of
scientists.

725
00:41:11,900 --> 00:41:14,800
I've heard them say, but you
drink alcohol chronically.

726
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,900
And even though alcohol passes
through your system in a few

727
00:41:17,900 --> 00:41:22,800
hours, it will have a chronic
effect on your body over time

728
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,100
and especially over a lifetime
of exposure.

729
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:29,500
We know that to be true.
So using that same principle

730
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:33,600
with chronic exposures to
chemicals that may not bio

731
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:37,600
accumulate in our body.
Be like their cousins do does

732
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,900
not necessarily mean that they
are safe or less toxic.

733
00:41:40,900 --> 00:41:44,800
It just means that they're doing
their damage for an hour or two

734
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,600
instead of years, right, right.
No, that's that's good.

735
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:52,100
So so there needs to be more
work done on, on the short

736
00:41:52,100 --> 00:41:53,800
chain.
Obviously we need, we need more

737
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:55,400
information.
We need more studies.

738
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:59,200
They're also me to be good maybe
if we have a whole class of

739
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:01,900
those, right, you know, whole
class setup for just a short

740
00:42:01,900 --> 00:42:06,000
chain impacts because we want
those to be Considered in the

741
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:08,100
sampling.
Hopefully they'll you see Marvel

742
00:42:08,100 --> 00:42:11,600
start adding those expanding
that pfos list.

743
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:14,800
I mean it's probably going to
take another year or so because

744
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:17,700
it's a two-year cycle for that
contaminant list.

745
00:42:17,700 --> 00:42:20,100
It goes out to the public, the
drinking water facilities, where

746
00:42:20,300 --> 00:42:24,800
they have to actually, you know,
sample this for, for a data

747
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:29,100
observations for the EPA.
But, well, let's do this.

748
00:42:29,100 --> 00:42:32,100
Let's dive into a little bit of
this, you know, infrastructure,

749
00:42:32,100 --> 00:42:34,100
bill, that the B
administration's put out, you

750
00:42:34,107 --> 00:42:37,300
know, the bill.
Is is help, is established to

751
00:42:37,300 --> 00:42:40,700
help, you know, communities deal
with, you know, with this

752
00:42:40,700 --> 00:42:44,800
emergent emerging contaminants,
especially these smaller

753
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,000
communities, is where I think
most of the funding is going to

754
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:50,300
be targeted to.
So, you know, I'm one question

755
00:42:50,300 --> 00:42:52,900
goes to is like what about the
larger communities, who are

756
00:42:52,900 --> 00:42:55,700
really impacted?
I mean, you know, how did they

757
00:42:55,700 --> 00:42:57,700
get support from the
infrastructure bill?

758
00:42:57,700 --> 00:43:01,500
But at least they have something
set up for the small community.

759
00:43:01,500 --> 00:43:03,500
So what do you think?
That's how is that going to

760
00:43:03,500 --> 00:43:04,900
really help with this new
proposal?

761
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:10,100
Role in the EPA, chemical
proposed chemical mcls.

762
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:15,500
You know, I think this
definitely, it helps alleviate

763
00:43:15,500 --> 00:43:17,800
some of the concerns.
I think, one of the things I've

764
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:21,200
heard for years from water,
utility associations, when I was

765
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:24,900
and visiting members of Congress
trying to get them to pass

766
00:43:24,900 --> 00:43:28,700
legislation.
Like this is is utility saying,

767
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,500
don't make unfunded mandates,
you know.

768
00:43:31,500 --> 00:43:35,200
So when you, when you set a
drinking water standard And

769
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:37,700
most, I wouldn't say most
utilities but some utility

770
00:43:37,700 --> 00:43:40,700
associations will say how, how
do we pay for that?

771
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:43,900
That is an unfunded mandate when
you have us needing to test and

772
00:43:43,900 --> 00:43:46,000
treat.
And again, unfortunately, this

773
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:49,900
is why America's water systems,
or where they're at today is

774
00:43:49,900 --> 00:43:52,800
because the focus has always
been on how do we pay for it?

775
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:57,200
Instead of, we should protect
health and we should all work

776
00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:58,800
together to figure out how to
pay for it.

777
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:02,700
Not be so afraid to pay for it.
That we don't a hold the

778
00:44:02,700 --> 00:44:05,100
responsible parties accountable
because there are mechanisms Is

779
00:44:05,100 --> 00:44:09,900
in place if we just had a will
we could get this this this

780
00:44:09,900 --> 00:44:12,800
funded properly.
I mean one thing that I would

781
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:15,800
personally love to see happen is
I would love to see Congress

782
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:20,800
pass a pee fast, use tax and a
pee fast use tax would be fine

783
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,700
industry.
If you're going to keep using p

784
00:44:23,700 --> 00:44:27,000
fast, then you need to pay into
a fund similar to kind of like

785
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:30,700
how the banks are regulated with
the FDIC and that is an

786
00:44:30,700 --> 00:44:33,800
insurance program for utilities.
So that if they find out that

787
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:37,700
they're impaired, And with this,
with these drinking water, you

788
00:44:37,700 --> 00:44:40,100
know, with with P fastened,
their drinking water that they

789
00:44:40,100 --> 00:44:43,600
can dip into that fund.
And they can know that industry

790
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:46,600
funded, that, that, that pot of
money.

791
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:49,400
And that, that is what that is
available for them to use.

792
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:53,900
I mean, there's there's ways
that the United States can work

793
00:44:53,900 --> 00:44:55,000
this out.
Yeah.

794
00:44:55,500 --> 00:45:00,500
It just takes political will and
it's Having the courage to quit

795
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:04,100
cowering and Catering to
Industry, right?

796
00:45:04,100 --> 00:45:06,100
I mean that's very Anissa that
you approach.

797
00:45:06,100 --> 00:45:08,700
You just said, I'd like the
leaking underground storage tank

798
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:11,500
program.
You know, almost every state has

799
00:45:11,500 --> 00:45:14,200
a program like that.
So if you are an operator owner,

800
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:18,000
operator of an underground
storage, you know, tank and, you

801
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:22,400
know, for fueling or whatever
you're storing, you pay a tax or

802
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:25,200
a fee into the leaking
underground storage fund.

803
00:45:25,300 --> 00:45:28,500
So, when it's time to clean up
that tank, when it leaks,

804
00:45:28,500 --> 00:45:31,900
there's money available to help
you with the cleanup same

805
00:45:31,900 --> 00:45:34,100
concept, right?
Let's let's do something like

806
00:45:34,100 --> 00:45:35,600
that.
If you know, Oh, and establish

807
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:37,000
something.
I think that would be good.

808
00:45:37,500 --> 00:45:40,100
That would be one way.
I think it's important to to

809
00:45:40,100 --> 00:45:43,900
point out that we're not
advocating either for continued

810
00:45:43,900 --> 00:45:46,000
uses of pfos.
I think the writing's on the

811
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:48,000
wall.
Number one we've played with

812
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:51,300
fire, we have played with a
chemistry that we had no

813
00:45:51,300 --> 00:45:54,800
business playing with and we put
it in places that it never

814
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:57,800
belonged in.
And and when I say we, I say

815
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:00,700
industry did this and just re
hit it, they lied about it.

816
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:03,800
But when we started learning
about those lies, that's when we

817
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:06,200
should have been acting.
And so there is a public

818
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:08,700
accountability at that.
We need to take a stand.

819
00:46:08,700 --> 00:46:12,200
And we need to make a push, and
we need to force our elected

820
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:16,800
leaders to make this a ballot
box issue, and say we are done.

821
00:46:17,100 --> 00:46:21,900
We it because the cost of
inaction is well above the cost

822
00:46:21,900 --> 00:46:23,500
of action.
And I think the EPA even

823
00:46:23,500 --> 00:46:25,800
highlighted that, when they
issued, their drinking water

824
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:28,200
standards.
They said, if you look at the

825
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:33,500
cost of inaction, it's costing
the United States billions and

826
00:46:33,500 --> 00:46:36,800
healthcare costs from These
exposures, absolutely.

827
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:41,000
And we're not even talking about
the hidden costs of like, of

828
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:45,200
lost wages of, you know, there's
so many go funnies in my

829
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:48,800
community right now, lost wages,
utility acting, you know,

830
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:51,500
increase, utility charges that
they're having the, I mean that

831
00:46:51,500 --> 00:46:54,800
just all eats away, you know,
it's like, you know, the

832
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:57,900
cumulative effect, right?
I mean, it's horrible.

833
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:03,800
Yeah, think about it, you know?
And I do feel that that this

834
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:07,100
infrastructure at Is a good step
in the right direction.

835
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:11,000
I do think that the money is
it's not enough.

836
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:12,100
We know it's not going to be
enough.

837
00:47:12,100 --> 00:47:14,400
Just looking at what our
communities are having to go

838
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:20,300
through my, the water district
that I live in Brunswick County

839
00:47:20,300 --> 00:47:23,600
is spending 120 million dollars
to upgrade their treatment

840
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:25,000
system.
They've already had to raise

841
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:26,900
rates once they're probably
going to have to raise them

842
00:47:26,900 --> 00:47:29,700
again.
And so we know that this is the

843
00:47:29,700 --> 00:47:32,800
this is a huge problem.
So we need to make sure that the

844
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:35,700
money is there because there
should never be be a trade off

845
00:47:35,700 --> 00:47:39,600
from of Access to Health
protective water which is a

846
00:47:39,607 --> 00:47:42,800
basic human, right?
And affordability being in being

847
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:45,200
told, you can't have it because
you can't afford it.

848
00:47:45,300 --> 00:47:48,800
Yeah, I was looking on the, on
the website, the other day,

849
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:53,100
about the infrastructure Bill.
And there's, if you're on the

850
00:47:53,100 --> 00:47:56,600
epa's website, you can also see
the actual state by state

851
00:47:56,600 --> 00:48:00,500
allocation of the funds that
will go to, you know, the

852
00:48:00,500 --> 00:48:03,000
various affected communities or
just, you know, in general the

853
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:06,900
states to support the small.
Communities that are affected by

854
00:48:06,900 --> 00:48:12,000
emerging contaminants.
I was like okay I mean it's okay

855
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:16,000
you know Indiana like they get
41 million dollars and you know

856
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:19,200
a couple other gets you know 28
million dollars and a couple

857
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:20,700
States.
I mean I think there's only one

858
00:48:20,700 --> 00:48:23,600
state that gets like a hundred
million which is like California

859
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:26,600
or something.
But other than that everyone is

860
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:29,800
getting around 22.
You know fifteen to twenty

861
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:33,200
Thirty million dollars.
That is that you like you said,

862
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:36,500
that doesn't seem like a lot.
When you've got these

863
00:48:36,500 --> 00:48:39,700
multimillion-dollar treatment
plant upgrades that need to

864
00:48:39,700 --> 00:48:42,000
happen in a lot of these
affected communities.

865
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:45,300
I mean the projects that are
going to be funded well I mean

866
00:48:45,300 --> 00:48:47,800
there will be some but not
enough, right?

867
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:51,100
Well I mean when it goes back to
a really really fascinating

868
00:48:51,100 --> 00:48:54,600
book, I read by Seth Siegel
called Troubled Waters, which

869
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:57,800
really takes us back to the root
of how we got to where we are

870
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:03,200
today, and it's that we stopped.
Treating, our Drinking Water

871
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:08,700
Supplies as sacred.
When we introduced disinfectants

872
00:49:09,100 --> 00:49:11,800
and then we started allowing
discharge permits into the

873
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:14,700
bodies of water that we were
using and we're talking like a

874
00:49:14,700 --> 00:49:18,100
hundred years ago to when we
started getting into drinking

875
00:49:18,100 --> 00:49:21,600
water systems and modernizing
them at that time.

876
00:49:22,500 --> 00:49:27,500
There was there was a move away
from protecting the source and

877
00:49:27,500 --> 00:49:29,200
keeping it as pristine as
possible.

878
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:31,600
And it became a we can just
treat our way out of this

879
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:35,100
problem and we can allow people
to dump and we can allow Ow

880
00:49:35,100 --> 00:49:38,700
industry to use it as their
trash can not thinking about the

881
00:49:38,707 --> 00:49:41,800
repercussions and then also not
holding industry accountable.

882
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:45,000
When they lie and hid, the
things that they were putting in

883
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:47,100
the water.
And so this is kind of where we

884
00:49:47,100 --> 00:49:49,100
are today.
As we are having to wake, you

885
00:49:49,100 --> 00:49:54,500
know, we are, we are waking up
to a reality that our tap water

886
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:58,900
is not protected, and in our
source, for our tap, water is

887
00:49:58,900 --> 00:50:03,700
not being treated as sacred.
Well, I mean the Aquatic Life

888
00:50:03,700 --> 00:50:06,700
inside these streams are also
being affected which is also

889
00:50:06,700 --> 00:50:10,600
being you know eaten by some you
know citizens that are fishing

890
00:50:10,900 --> 00:50:17,300
these these Waters of the state.
You know it just is kind of like

891
00:50:17,300 --> 00:50:18,900
you said it's like this
cumulative effect.

892
00:50:18,900 --> 00:50:21,600
You know, it's a you do this
part, it's going to just it's

893
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:25,500
like it just goes through every
chain of connectivity that we're

894
00:50:25,500 --> 00:50:29,800
involved with our life cycle.
It's really, it's not good, it's

895
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:36,000
not good.
If you're listening to this

896
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:39,300
podcast, I'll bet you may be
thinking how can I level up in

897
00:50:39,300 --> 00:50:41,800
advance my career?
If you want to get that

898
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:44,400
promotion, increase your
regulatory knowledge gain.

899
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:46,800
Professional recognition and
earn more money.

900
00:50:47,100 --> 00:50:49,600
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industry credential from The

901
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:52,100
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902
00:50:52,300 --> 00:50:55,000
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903
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:58,000
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experience, skilled employees

904
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:01,200
without a degree and for the
degree, professional looking.

905
00:51:01,300 --> 00:51:04,900
To set themselves, apart from
the pack, their credentials,

906
00:51:04,900 --> 00:51:08,000
focus on three main areas.
Certified, hazardous material

907
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:09,500
manager, the see.
Hmm.

908
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:13,700
The certified dangerous goods,
professional the CD GP, and the

909
00:51:13,707 --> 00:51:16,800
certified safety, and health
manager, the Cs.

910
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:20,800
Hm, if you become an eye, hmm,
credential professional.

911
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:24,500
Then you will be in the top 1%
of your profession and your

912
00:51:24,500 --> 00:51:26,100
credential will have a global
reach.

913
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:31,700
Check out their programs, they
offer at That's

914
00:51:31,700 --> 00:51:37,300
www.ihs.gov/scholarship it
today.

915
00:51:40,700 --> 00:51:42,600
Let's talk a little bit about
maybe.

916
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:47,300
If you could, I understand that
you guys working on a new, a new

917
00:51:47,300 --> 00:51:50,700
petition that you're going to be
submitting, pfos chemicals, can

918
00:51:50,700 --> 00:51:53,500
you talk about, you know, that
and what that might be?

919
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:57,800
Yeah, so my realization clean
Cape Fear.

920
00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:03,500
We reached out to the Berkeley
law clinic out in California and

921
00:52:03,500 --> 00:52:06,000
we asked them, if they would
help us write a Communications

922
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:08,900
to the United Nations, Human
Rights Commission to the special

923
00:52:08,900 --> 00:52:13,600
repertoire there, to issue a
human rights violation for our

924
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:16,500
region, based on our P fast,
exposures.

925
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:23,100
And so this we, you know,
there's United Nations speak

926
00:52:23,100 --> 00:52:25,900
which is slightly different than
Then how we would consider

927
00:52:25,900 --> 00:52:27,500
things here in the United
States.

928
00:52:27,900 --> 00:52:31,300
And so we are submitted a on
Thursday.

929
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:37,100
Sorry, I'm going to have to add
edit me out here, but we filed,

930
00:52:37,100 --> 00:52:39,300
what, what is officially called
with United Nations?

931
00:52:39,300 --> 00:52:41,700
A Communications.
But that is something that here

932
00:52:41,700 --> 00:52:44,900
in the United States we would
consider maybe a complaint.

933
00:52:44,900 --> 00:52:48,300
So we're filing a petition or a
complaint with the United

934
00:52:48,300 --> 00:52:51,200
Nations and we're asking the
United States to issue human

935
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:54,600
rights violations here in the
United States specifically.

936
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:59,000
In the lower Cape Fear, River
basin for 40 years of chronic

937
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:01,500
exposures to pee fast
contamination.

938
00:53:02,500 --> 00:53:05,600
Well, what type of Precedence do
you think this would have with

939
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:08,500
other communities that the
United Nations may?

940
00:53:08,900 --> 00:53:09,700
You know?
Look at?

941
00:53:09,700 --> 00:53:13,300
I mean, in the u.s. there's a
handful of these types of really

942
00:53:13,300 --> 00:53:17,600
impacted communities but you
know, as we know, United Nations

943
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:22,300
is global in its its approach to
these types of atrocities and

944
00:53:22,300 --> 00:53:25,400
you know, and communities
impacted Do you think they would

945
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:28,300
also look at this and other
areas of the world?

946
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:30,900
Well, they already have.
And I think that's and that's

947
00:53:30,900 --> 00:53:33,700
where we kind of got the
inspiration and idea is that

948
00:53:33,700 --> 00:53:36,300
this particular Special Report
or issued a human rights

949
00:53:36,300 --> 00:53:40,800
violation and Italy, I think two
years ago for p fast

950
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:43,600
contamination.
And so we felt well, you know

951
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:47,000
what, let's have this happen
here in the United States for

952
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:50,000
our community because what we're
dealing with right now is

953
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:53,600
chemours is actually trying to
expand production and make more

954
00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:57,400
pee fast.
There are asking our State

955
00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:01,600
Environmental rdq, so North
Carolina's Department of

956
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:03,900
Environmental Quality, our state
Regulators.

957
00:54:03,900 --> 00:54:08,500
They're asking to expand their
air permit so that they can make

958
00:54:08,500 --> 00:54:11,300
more p fasts and we're pretty
much done.

959
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:13,700
We are tired of being a
sacrifice Zone.

960
00:54:14,100 --> 00:54:18,900
We have had 40 Years of exposure
and we deserve 40 Years of zero

961
00:54:18,900 --> 00:54:22,600
exposure 0p fast.
So we don't want anymore and so

962
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:24,600
we're saying no more chemours,
no more.

963
00:54:24,700 --> 00:54:27,300
Expansion.
And we feel that if we can have

964
00:54:27,300 --> 00:54:30,900
the full weight of the United
Nations looking into this, that

965
00:54:30,900 --> 00:54:34,800
it'll give whatever courage is
needed from our Regulators to

966
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:36,700
step up and do the right thing
but we also want to hold them

967
00:54:36,707 --> 00:54:41,100
accountable and say you know
what, there's a you have played

968
00:54:41,100 --> 00:54:44,100
a role, you Regulators have
played a role in allowing

969
00:54:44,100 --> 00:54:48,500
industry to to go unchecked for
so long and it really is time

970
00:54:48,900 --> 00:54:51,900
time for you to use your
existing Authority and do what

971
00:54:51,900 --> 00:54:54,600
is what is not just morally,
right?

972
00:54:54,700 --> 00:54:56,400
Does legally right under human
rights law?

973
00:54:57,300 --> 00:55:01,500
So how would the United Nations
come in and and, you know, have

974
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:08,200
I guess jurisdiction or some
sort of a lever to hold the EPA

975
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:12,100
or other polluters accountable
in this or government's?

976
00:55:12,100 --> 00:55:14,800
I guess accountable, how that
goes, how would that work?

977
00:55:15,500 --> 00:55:18,500
So what would be the first step
is that we issued this

978
00:55:18,500 --> 00:55:20,600
communication.
And so then the special

979
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:24,800
repertoire at the United Nations
has 60 days to respond to to our

980
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:28,000
communication.
And so in that 60 days they can

981
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:31,600
either dismiss the request or
they can send letters of

982
00:55:31,600 --> 00:55:35,300
accusations to certain entities
within our community that they

983
00:55:35,300 --> 00:55:38,600
feel need to act and so they can
make recommendations based on

984
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:41,500
International treaties and
international laws.

985
00:55:41,500 --> 00:55:46,800
And I think probably the biggest
the biggest importance in

986
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:49,000
leverage.
We would have, is it's just if

987
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:53,300
we have the United States, right
now on the global scale saying

988
00:55:53,300 --> 00:55:57,000
that if they want to Be the
beacon of a democracy then they

989
00:55:57,000 --> 00:55:59,900
need to start living into what
that looks like.

990
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:02,900
And you know that looks like
protecting fundamental human

991
00:56:02,900 --> 00:56:05,300
rights.
Protecting, I know protecting

992
00:56:05,300 --> 00:56:07,700
the rights of abortion
protecting the right to

993
00:56:07,700 --> 00:56:11,300
education and freedom of Freedom
of Information and freedom of

994
00:56:11,300 --> 00:56:15,300
choice and freedom of speech.
And then also protecting basic

995
00:56:15,300 --> 00:56:18,500
human rights and bodily
integrity and access to health

996
00:56:18,500 --> 00:56:21,700
information, and clean drinking
water.

997
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:24,200
You know, these are all
fundamental basic human rights

998
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:25,600
that need.
Need to be protected.

999
00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:29,700
And so we want to make sure that
the right to clean drinking

1000
00:56:29,700 --> 00:56:33,400
water and the right to a
community that is not constantly

1001
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:36,000
being hammered with exposures
from P fast.

1002
00:56:36,300 --> 00:56:39,400
And in other talks, this is
being protected.

1003
00:56:40,700 --> 00:56:42,300
Well, it's great.
I mean, I think that will

1004
00:56:42,300 --> 00:56:46,400
definitely raise the L of, you
know, Elevate the awareness

1005
00:56:46,500 --> 00:56:52,400
Within These government agencies
and these polluters and, and I

1006
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:56,800
think it can only help, you
know, And hopefully result in

1007
00:56:56,800 --> 00:56:58,300
change, right?
I mean I think that would be

1008
00:56:58,300 --> 00:57:01,700
fantastic.
Anything else simile that we

1009
00:57:01,700 --> 00:57:04,200
haven't covered that, you might
want to hit on the why we've got

1010
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:07,600
you, you know, here we've
covered a lot today which has

1011
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:09,400
been fantastic.
Just getting an update.

1012
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:12,700
Getting your take on the new
proposed EPA.

1013
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:17,500
Drinking water levels.
Is it is it going far enough or

1014
00:57:17,500 --> 00:57:20,800
do we include enough of the, you
know, pfos chemicals.

1015
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:23,900
In this proposed rule the new
infrastructure bill?

1016
00:57:23,900 --> 00:57:25,500
Is it enough?
To really help all the

1017
00:57:25,500 --> 00:57:28,300
communities in our, you know,
our our nation.

1018
00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:32,200
It's a good start.
But, you know, this has been a

1019
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:34,200
great discussion.
Anything else we should hit on?

1020
00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:36,400
I think we've done a lot here in
car lot of ground.

1021
00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:39,000
No, I think we did.
And I think what I would end

1022
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:43,000
with is just saying that, if we
really want to address this,

1023
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:47,300
what what it is now recognized
as a global contamination

1024
00:57:47,300 --> 00:57:51,500
crisis, is we need to start
finding green chemistry

1025
00:57:51,500 --> 00:57:55,800
replacements for for existing
That's uses we needed.

1026
00:57:55,800 --> 00:58:01,700
Well step one, we need to limit
the pee fast in use to essential

1027
00:58:01,700 --> 00:58:04,400
only which is what Europe is
trying to do.

1028
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:08,000
The United States needs to adopt
that we need to quit approving.

1029
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:12,800
New Uses of pee fast, we need to
quit allowing new uses for

1030
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:15,700
existing pee fast and then we
need to start funding and

1031
00:58:15,700 --> 00:58:19,800
encouraged and development of
replacement chemistry that meets

1032
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:24,300
green chemistry standards and
and other other sustainable

1033
00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:28,400
chemistry goals to make sure
that we're not just putting

1034
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:31,700
ourselves in a, regrettable
substitute like we did with pfoa

1035
00:58:31,700 --> 00:58:34,700
and Gen-X.
And so, if we get there, and

1036
00:58:34,700 --> 00:58:37,700
then, we also need to clean up
the existing exposures and all

1037
00:58:37,700 --> 00:58:40,100
their forms, which is not just
drinking water, but it's also

1038
00:58:40,100 --> 00:58:43,700
our food supply.
It's our soil, it's our beaches,

1039
00:58:43,900 --> 00:58:46,300
its coding, our beaches here in
Brunswick County, I'm

1040
00:58:46,300 --> 00:58:51,200
participating in a study there
and then we also need to look at

1041
00:58:51,700 --> 00:58:54,900
getting access to those health
studies because We need a

1042
00:58:54,908 --> 00:58:57,900
Fighting Chance at being able to
get Quality Medical monitoring

1043
00:58:57,900 --> 00:59:01,300
and preventative care and we
need to create a deterrent

1044
00:59:01,300 --> 00:59:02,900
mechanism.
And that's what I'm really

1045
00:59:02,900 --> 00:59:05,300
hoping with some of this work
that we're doing with United

1046
00:59:05,300 --> 00:59:10,100
Nations, that we are calling on
all of our leaders to create

1047
00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:14,300
enforcement actions that deter
corporations from compare

1048
00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:17,300
continually, and habitually
breaking the rules.

1049
00:59:17,700 --> 00:59:20,000
And if that means there needs to
be criminal criminal

1050
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:22,500
investigations, and we need to
start holding the people Behind

1051
00:59:22,500 --> 00:59:26,600
These corporations accountable
then Do it because so the only

1052
00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:28,700
way we're going to see lasting
change in my mind.

1053
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:33,000
So Emily.
I mean, what if like a big donor

1054
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:36,700
came to you guys and said, hey
look, we want to help fund

1055
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:43,400
Epidemiology studies in your
reagent and we want to bring in

1056
00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:48,800
as many as many residents to
come in and do basically give

1057
00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:52,300
their blood samples.
So we can run these, these

1058
00:59:52,300 --> 00:59:56,700
toxicology toxicology studies so
we can get this information that

1059
00:59:56,700 --> 01:00:00,500
we're all looking for.
I mean, could that be an answer

1060
01:00:00,500 --> 01:00:04,100
for the Cape Fear and the clean
Cape Fear organizations here?

1061
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:06,300
Absolutely.
And I'm so glad you brought that

1062
01:00:06,300 --> 01:00:08,100
up.
We're actually, as we Launched

1063
01:00:08,100 --> 01:00:12,000
this, as we're appealing, our
Tosca lawsuit.

1064
01:00:12,100 --> 01:00:15,900
We're also launching a legal
defense fund, and so that money

1065
01:00:15,900 --> 01:00:18,500
from the legal defense fund
obviously, is helping us

1066
01:00:18,500 --> 01:00:22,000
continue the legal fight, but
any money that's put into that

1067
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:24,900
fund where earmarking it to use
for health studies.

1068
01:00:25,100 --> 01:00:29,300
And so yeah, if a donor wanted
to come in and do that, let's

1069
01:00:29,300 --> 01:00:33,500
talk, let's I'm thinking, you
know, pay Bill Gates.

1070
01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:37,200
Hey Ilan, mosque, you know,
where are you guys?

1071
01:00:37,300 --> 01:00:40,400
We I need you to come here and
help us, and help our

1072
01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:44,300
communities with it, that are
buying your cars that are, you

1073
01:00:44,300 --> 01:00:48,300
know, buying your computers.
That you know, these these

1074
01:00:48,300 --> 01:00:50,000
people should help out these
communities.

1075
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:52,400
If they are all talking about
being sustainable and

1076
01:00:52,600 --> 01:00:55,300
community-minded where the, you
know, all the foundations that

1077
01:00:55,300 --> 01:00:57,500
are out there, the, you know,
the MacArthur Foundation and

1078
01:00:57,500 --> 01:01:00,700
people like that that are really
trying to push in on these

1079
01:01:00,700 --> 01:01:03,400
these, these ideas, these are
real.

1080
01:01:04,700 --> 01:01:07,800
Problems going on in this cave
here and I really love to see

1081
01:01:07,800 --> 01:01:11,100
some donors come and help you
guys if they were, how would

1082
01:01:11,100 --> 01:01:15,400
they get ahold of you and this
this fund that you have just

1083
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:17,600
that wished.
Yeah.

1084
01:01:17,600 --> 01:01:20,600
So we're going to have a link on
our website.

1085
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:23,500
It's so clean Cape Fear dot-org.
And if you go under take action,

1086
01:01:23,500 --> 01:01:27,800
and you look at, I believe talks
a litigation or talks a loss

1087
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:31,400
lawsuit, you'll be able to see a
link there.

1088
01:01:31,700 --> 01:01:33,800
You can also go to Center for
environmental health.

1089
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:36,000
Go to their Sites.
Eeh dot-org.

1090
01:01:36,300 --> 01:01:39,800
And they will have a link to the
legal defense fund and so we'll

1091
01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:42,000
have we'll have it in those two
areas and then you can always

1092
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:45,500
check on social because will be
advertising it on our social

1093
01:01:45,500 --> 01:01:47,500
media.
Thanks really.

1094
01:01:48,300 --> 01:01:51,300
Well, let's get that information
out, and when we get done here,

1095
01:01:51,300 --> 01:01:53,900
you can send me a link to it.
Will start to promote it as

1096
01:01:53,900 --> 01:01:55,100
well.
I think that'd be great because

1097
01:01:55,700 --> 01:01:59,500
I think there are enough people
out in the world who are, you

1098
01:01:59,500 --> 01:02:02,500
know, looking for a cause to
support.

1099
01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:05,500
And let's see if we can drive
somebody to your way.

1100
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:07,500
Perfect.
Well, thank you so much for

1101
01:02:07,500 --> 01:02:08,800
having me.
I really appreciate this.

1102
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:10,800
Hey, thanks Emily.
Great to catch up with you.

1103
01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:14,100
As always, you know, God bless
you and all the work you're

1104
01:02:14,100 --> 01:02:17,800
doing and we'll keep up the good
fight war will keep up and we'll

1105
01:02:17,800 --> 01:02:19,900
keep in touch great.
Thank you.

1106
01:02:19,900 --> 01:02:28,700
All right, goodbye.
I want to thank our guests,

1107
01:02:28,700 --> 01:02:31,100
Emily Donovan for coming out of
the show today.

1108
01:02:31,100 --> 01:02:33,800
If you want to learn more about
clean Cape Fear and the work

1109
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:37,100
Emily's doing, you can go to
www.cleaningservicestlouis.com

1110
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:41,900
or call to learn more.
If you'd like to support the

1111
01:02:41,900 --> 01:02:45,300
clean Cape Fear, legal defense
fund, you can go to

1112
01:02:45,500 --> 01:02:54,300
www.tsiyon.org backslash give
Dash and c will also put a link

1113
01:02:54,300 --> 01:02:57,300
to their contact information on
my website too.

1114
01:02:57,500 --> 01:02:59,900
In the future environmental
transformation podcast, you can

1115
01:02:59,900 --> 01:03:03,100
check us out on all the major
podcast networks or from my

1116
01:03:03,100 --> 01:03:07,200
website at
www.shawnacoronado.com.

1117
01:03:07,500 --> 01:03:10,000
And remember, don't forget to
hit the follow button.

1118
01:03:10,400 --> 01:03:14,600
We would really also appreciate
any feedback you can write for

1119
01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:20,000
us on your podcast platforms, it
helps us increase our placement

1120
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:23,400
in most podcast networks.
Also, if you are watching on

1121
01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:25,800
YouTube, please subscribe to the
channel.

1122
01:03:26,300 --> 01:03:29,000
Well, thanks for listening.
And until next time, make a

1123
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:31,400
positive impact in someone's
life today.