How Terracycle is leading the reuse and recycling industry with its Loop platform & expanding the circular economy with CEO Tom Szaky

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Overall, as we think about the
idea of waste, we stand strong

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that this idea should be an
anomaly at some point in human

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history because it only really
came onto the scene in the

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1950s.
Before that, all the outputs we

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produced were useful inputs to
some other Organism.

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You know, everything, you know,
our chairs would have been wood

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or our clothing would have been
natural materials, you know, so

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on and so forth.
It's really since the 50s that

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this sort of concept of waste
has come onto the scene and it's

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a non natural concept.
What we have been always

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thinking about is how do you use
business models to try to create

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solutions to waste.
Welcome to the Environmental

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Transformation Podcast, where we
bring you interviews with

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industry leaders, climate
champions, sustainability

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practitioners, EHS and hazmat
professionals making an impact

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in their businesses today.
Each leader solving complex

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challenges and delivering
solutions within their areas of

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expertise.
I'm your host Sean Grady and

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thanks for joining us today.
Before we jump in, make sure to

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follow us on your devices and
visit my website at

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announcements.
Now let's get started.

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Welcome to the environmental
Transformation podcast.

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I'm your host Sean Grady.
Today's guest is Tom Zaki.

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Tom is the Co founder and CEO of
Terrace Cycle and international

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leader in innovative
sustainability solutions

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provider creating an opportunity
or creating and operating first

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of their kind platforms in
recycling, recycling materials

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and reuse across 21 countries.
Terracycles on a mission to

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rethink waste and develop
practical solutions for today's

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complex waste challenges.
The company engages in an

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expansive multi stakeholder
community across a wide range of

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accessible programs from Fortune
500 companies to schools and

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individuals.
For the listeners who've been on

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the show or been following the
show for quite a while, Tom came

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on the show during episode #20
so that was the first year we

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started this back in 2020, which
I kid and hardly believe that it

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was.
It's been five years Tom, since

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we last spoke, which, you know,
at that point I was just

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figuring out how to do this
podcasting gig and you are one

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of my biggest guests at the time
back then.

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We are super excited to have
you.

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And here we are over 100
episodes later and yeah, we,

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we're still going strong.
We we're doing about 20 episodes

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a year and that's just enough to
kind of keep a really good, you

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know, two a month type cadence
and a little break here and

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there between holidays.
And it's, it's been a lot of

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fun.
And so, Tom, welcome back to the

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show.
I really appreciate you, your

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time and coming on.
Thanks for having me, it's a

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pleasure to be back.
Yeah, I mean, you, there's been

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a lot happening since in the
past five years.

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I mean, so I think it was one of
the posts I saw that, you know,

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you you put out on LinkedIn.
And I was like, you know, I

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would love to have Tom come back
on the show and kind of update

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the audience because there was
so much you guys been doing.

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Yeah.
This would be great.

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Yeah.
You founded Terra Cycle with

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this mission to eliminate waste
at a time when sustainability

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was just, you know, far from
mainstream.

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But now it kind of has been the
big focus of mainstream in the

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past five years, and in large
part by a lot of things you're

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doing others.
But how has your philosophy

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around eliminating the idea of
waste, which is kind of one of

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your themes here, evolved as
Terra Cycle has grown into a

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global enterprise?
Yeah, absolutely.

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And and it's interesting you say
that, you know, we've been doing

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this now it's year 24, the
quarter century next year.

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And you know, when we started
Terra Cycle, it was, it was very

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much sustainability was just
emerging.

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You know, you didn't have chief
sustainability officers at

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companies.
There may have been someone who

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sort of thinks about it on the
side to now where you see a lot

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of regulation coming.
It's certainly a department.

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It's, it's really evolved in a
very big way for us overall, as

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we think about the idea of
waste.

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This has been something that's
been a lifelong fascination of

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mine.
You know, we stand strong that

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this idea should be an anomaly
at some point in human history

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because it only really came onto
the scene in the 1950s.

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Before that, all the outputs we
produced were useful inputs to

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some other Organism, you know,
everything, you know, our chairs

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would have been wood or our
clothing would have been natural

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materials, you know, so on and
so forth.

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It's really since the 50s that
this sort of concept of waste

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has come onto the scene and it's
a non natural concept, you know.

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So for us, what we have been
always thinking about is how do

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you use business models to try
to create solutions to waste?

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And that historically started
with how do we recycle things

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that are hard to recycle.
That's continued to flourish and

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grow, but we've also put a lot
of investment into how do we go

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beyond recycling.
For us, we believe that is the

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idea of reuse and that's been
our singular biggest investment

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as a company is really seeing
how we can mainstream reuse and

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do that at scale.
We've done that through our loop

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platform and happy to say, you
know, it's not worked

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everywhere, but in France.
It's the biggest reuse platform

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in the country today.
And if we hope that we can then

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build on top of that and bring
it to more markets and even more

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scale.
You know, I've been to France

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many times, my wife and I.
My wife's more of a Francophile

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than I am, but we go to France
quite a bit.

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In the past five years, I think
I've been six times.

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So we enjoy the the culture and
the food and everything.

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But when you go to like certain
restaurants there, AKA maybe a

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McDonald's, Kentucky Fried
Chicken or whatever, they've got

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these reusable products.
I think there are the loop

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products you guys are using and
I go, you know, I know the guys

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behind that.
That's really cool.

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Yeah.
And look, this is where France

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leads.
And I would say it's an

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important note for why, right
when we started Loop.

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And I mean, we've invested $50
million into reuse.

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So it's been a big one for us.
We ran pilots in US, Canada, UK,

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France and Japan.
So we took a lot of bets, if you

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will, on the proverbial global
roulette table.

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And France was the one that was
able to really get the scale.

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And the reason is that something
as profound as we use needs

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regulatory support.
And what France has is that

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regulatory framework, which is
absent everywhere else.

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France has laws that are A,
mandating reuse, but B, also

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subsidizing it so it becomes
economically competitive when it

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is embryonic and scale and then
that subsidy is not needed,

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needed as the scale gets bigger.
And I think that's important

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because today and you know, many
countries we are deregulating,

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right?
And I think it's important to

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note in sustainability in some
places regulations not needed,

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but in other places it is pretty
central to ideas transforming.

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Well, I mean, that's great.
And I really applaud the the

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reuse practices that Loop's been
doing, especially in France and

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other other locations.
I hope it would pick up more

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here in the US, but there's
needs to be some cultural

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changes, obviously, and some
economic changes and from a

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business perspective.
But I was reading a a recent

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article that came out by the
National Waste Recycling

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Association's president, Michael
Hoffman.

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He says he's raised concerns
about America's circular economy

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is at risk.
And he says we want, he says, he

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went on to say that the unified
recycling PET imports, reduced

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brand commitments and declining
demand for domestic recycling

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content is threatening US
recycling infrastructure and the

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jobs in the communities that
support it.

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Is Terrace Cycle also seeing
this kind of play out in real

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time right now?
And you know, if So, what can be

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done to change this concern?
God, it's a good, it's a good

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point.
And I would say the punchline,

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and I'll dive into it, is that
yes, we see this in general

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recycling.
Terrace Cycle seems to be immune

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to this and I'll explain why in
a moment.

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But it is important to note that
in general recycling, that's

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absolutely the case.
So maybe just to dive in, the

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general recycling business model
is a very simple equation.

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As a recycler, you would think
about what is your cost to get

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certain inputs.
Let's say you're interested in

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PET recycling.
So what's your cost to get it

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and turn it into a sellable
output?

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Those are your cost basis and
you compare that to what you can

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sell the output for.
And so you are highly exposed

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and very dependent on raw
material value.

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And if raw material gets cheaper
because maybe virgin prices and

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oil prices are going down, then
you might not have a business

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model to run.
And that certainly expresses

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itself in traditional recycling.
Now what makes something

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traditionally not recyclable?
It's not that it can't be, is

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that it just costs more to
collect and process and the

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results are worth.
And mind you, this is the case

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for the majority of objects.
Our toys, our cosmetic

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packaging, our wet suits to our
bicycle helmets, our writing

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instruments to our toothbrushes
are not, are not recyclable, not

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because they can't be, but
because they just cost more to

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collect them process and the
results are worth.

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And this by the way, is getting
worse every year, not better.

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Because the biggest mega trend
in object design, I think across

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all objects is make it cheaper
tomorrow than today.

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And there's virtues of that.
Of course, it becomes more

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affordable, more profitable, one
or the other or both.

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But nevertheless, that is the
trend.

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You know, the best thing I would
say is take any object that's

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been around for 100 years and
look at its versions over

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decades, and you'll notice
exactly that trend showing up.

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Yeah, on everything, clothing to
biscuit packaging to toys.

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Right.
And so that makes things then

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progressively less recycled in
the traditional context.

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The reason we've been immune to
it is we don't depend a Terra

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cycle on raw material value.
It is a subsidy, but it is not a

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dependency.
So for example, when we collect

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and recycle coffee capsules,
sure, when we sell the aluminum

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that comes out of that, there is
some value, but it offsets maybe

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1% of the cost.
So if aluminum double s in

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value, OK, it offsets 2% of the
cost.

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But if it goes to 0, which are,
you know, hyperbolic examples,

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it would increase cost by 1%.
It's not that big of a driver

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and that allows us to not be
challenged by that type of

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trend.
Now, relative to overall

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recycling, Terra cycles tiny,
right?

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We're about 100 million in
revenue.

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The overall recycling industry
is orders of magnitude bigger

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than that.
And you're right, this is an

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important thing to be very aware
of, right?

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Traditional recycling competes
against virgin materials, and

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virgin materials are cheap to
extract.

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Yeah, Yeah.
Well and then the comment about,

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you know, these unverified
recycling PET imports and having

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lower cost version product
coming into the country to be

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used, you know, for that that
virgin product.

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I'm my mind's thinking, OK, one,
there should be a regulatory

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framework that's, you know, kind
of maybe puts a little more

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emphasis on using recyclable
content that's maybe generated

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in the US versus taking it from
some other country.

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And maybe maybe to stem some of
this influx, maybe a little

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couple extra, some tariffs on
some of this stuff could help,

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you know, so that puts more
pressure for, you know, the

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local industries to produce it.
And then maybe this there's a

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little more commitment from some
of these companies to use

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recycled content and get some
sort of incentive for it.

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I don't know but where we need
to go with this, but I I'm.

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I think all of the above, I
think America based on its

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regulatory sort of leanings, the
easiest would be doing things

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like subsidies, you know, let's
subsidized recycled content

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produced domestically.
I think your point is incredibly

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valid and using post consumer,
not only post industrial content

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that should have a subsidy
against it so that it's easier

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for recyclers to compete because
I think to the lay public,

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what's in what I think many
people don't note is recycling

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is a tough business.
Yeah, it's dirty.

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00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:26,320
Business, it's not easy.
It's dirty, smelly, gross, but

227
00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:28,280
it's also not oozing in
profitability.

228
00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:33,600
Yeah, You know, and I think that
it is important to help offset

229
00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:35,240
that.
And we have mechanisms for that.

230
00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:38,720
You know, we subsidized certain
industries to make it easier,

231
00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:40,440
you know, to create domestic
value.

232
00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:43,320
And you know, one of the really
interesting things I saw is

233
00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:48,120
where suddenly like, you know,
take a tangential example, like

234
00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:51,640
the clothing we use space, which
is somewhat tangential to this,

235
00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,320
you know, think companies that
are big in that thread up and

236
00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:55,720
reel to reel or rent the
runaway.

237
00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:57,680
You know, these companies that
are doing re commerce and

238
00:11:57,680 --> 00:12:00,000
clothing, their business models
have really struggled.

239
00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:01,840
You know, they've really
struggled to make money.

240
00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:03,760
And if you look at their share
prices, they've been on a

241
00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:07,760
progressive, you know, decrease.
But when tariffs came in and

242
00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:12,800
made it more expensive to bring
in foreign goods, that's that

243
00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:15,880
was what created the first rally
in their business models.

244
00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:17,880
And they started really moving
in the right direction.

245
00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:20,440
It's not to say I'm advocating
for tariffs or not, but just

246
00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:24,160
more to say that some form of
economic benefit to these

247
00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:27,440
domestic players is important
because, yeah, on their own, the

248
00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:30,160
businesses are not as easy.
Yeah.

249
00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:34,920
And I don't know if Congress or
you know, some of these Congress

250
00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:37,360
people will take this type of an
approach and look at it a little

251
00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:40,240
closer, but who knows, maybe
somebody will take the mantle

252
00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:42,840
and then run with it a little
bit and and maybe it'll be some

253
00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:45,320
legislation implemented.
But you know, there is

254
00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:48,200
legislation expanding.
And then I want to get into

255
00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:49,080
this.
I mean, you know, with

256
00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:52,080
governments in introducing
stricter EPR, which, you know,

257
00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:55,120
the extended producer
responsibility mandates and ESG

258
00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:58,440
reporting requirements, or
should I say expectations, How

259
00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:01,080
do you see terror cycles roll,
you know, shifting?

260
00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:06,160
Because I gotta imagine EPR is a
big benefit to your business.

261
00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:09,120
Yeah, when you're in the right
location where those

262
00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:11,720
expectations are real.
Yeah, absolutely.

263
00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:16,200
So in EPR, right, if we look at
the 20 countries where terror

264
00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:19,200
cycle operates, the vast
majority have had federal EPR

265
00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:21,280
for a very long time.
And in fact in the Germany,

266
00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:24,480
Austria, Swiss regions, the
second biggest PRO which the

267
00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:28,640
administrator of the PEPR taxes
owns 25% of our business.

268
00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:30,640
You know, so we have really
great connections there.

269
00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:32,920
And in fact, in America, this is
what we're seeing now state by

270
00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:34,200
state is where the regs are
coming.

271
00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:38,240
California, especially with
Senate Bill 54, Senate Bill 343,

272
00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:42,000
Senate Bill 54 more the EPR
bill, Senate 343 is more the

273
00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:46,000
truth in recycling labeling
bill, but it's coming now.

274
00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:48,640
It's challenging that it's going
to be hyper fragmented, you

275
00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:53,160
know, across every 50 state.
One unifying factor is that CAA

276
00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:56,160
seems to be the operator of most
of these EPR, you know,

277
00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:59,600
regulations, at least the same
body that's going to be affect,

278
00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:01,960
you know, becoming the PRO for
us.

279
00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:04,480
The way we interact with the EPR
is 1.

280
00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:07,320
When we collect and you know, we
focus on the things that are not

281
00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:09,440
locally recyclable, right?
We don't want to recycle, you

282
00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:11,240
know, collect through Terra
cycle things that are locally

283
00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:13,680
recyclable, but things that are
not is our domain.

284
00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:18,800
And so in many cases we work
with the EPR organizations to

285
00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:21,360
become those alternative
collection models for the things

286
00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:25,880
that the core blue box curbside
recycling is not for as big as

287
00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:28,240
like in the state of Maine.
We run the state's entire

288
00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:32,280
e-waste EPR system goes through
US, you know, so it can be

289
00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:35,440
anything from electronics all
the way to food packages.

290
00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:39,200
We also see that in in for
example, California regulation,

291
00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:42,360
the Senate Bill 54.
There is a lot of talk around

292
00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:44,680
reuse.
So that could, you know, bring

293
00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:48,320
out the type of work we do in
France with reuse into the US at

294
00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:50,080
a level of like a state of
California.

295
00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:53,400
And generally we think it's, you
know, it's a good thing to start

296
00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:56,680
producing the obligation to pay
for those externalities.

297
00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:01,160
I think the thing that needs to
be eyes wide open on an EPR is

298
00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:03,080
EPR is not necessarily a silver
bullet.

299
00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:06,840
It's a funding mechanism and it
generally moves the funding for

300
00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:09,280
recycling away from
municipalities, which is

301
00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:12,680
expressed to us individuals in
our property taxes or if we

302
00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:16,360
don't own them in our rent to
our product prices because it

303
00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:18,240
goes to the producers.
So it's sort of moves from a

304
00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:21,480
property tax to a sales tax.
The important thing to really be

305
00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:24,760
aware of is the net funding
increasing or is the net funding

306
00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:27,440
static or is it decreasing?
Because we've seen, for example,

307
00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,800
in some provinces in Canada, the
net funding goes down when that

308
00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,640
move occurs and in fact, less
things get recycled.

309
00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:36,480
So it's all about the money
flow, right?

310
00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:38,880
If the money flow increases,
more will get recycled.

311
00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:41,760
If it actually decreases, which
is could, less will get

312
00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:44,000
recycled.
And I think that to me has been

313
00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:46,800
the biggest unlock in thinking
about this whole topic of

314
00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:49,840
circular economy is that it's
not about technical anything.

315
00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:54,120
It's about the money flow.
I'll, you know, I'll give you a

316
00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:56,480
joke that's been really an easy
way for me to express it.

317
00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:59,280
I'll play that with you if
that's all right, which is

318
00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:04,080
imagine a cup is going to appear
in front of you and it's gross,

319
00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:05,880
it's dirty, right?
You can't just drink from it.

320
00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:07,000
You're going to have to go clean
it.

321
00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:11,200
And my hope is that in a vacuum,
like no one's watching, you

322
00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:13,000
know, there's no law telling you
to do anything.

323
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:16,360
You're going to take that cup
and clean it and drink from it.

324
00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,360
So the first cup I put in front
of you is a cup made from solid

325
00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:22,160
gold.
What's your action?

326
00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:24,520
Are you happily gonna take it or
not?

327
00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:28,080
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, and I imagine you would.

328
00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:30,640
And you'd still clean it because
it's valuable, right?

329
00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:32,720
Yeah, and you'd take more and
more if more were to appear

330
00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:33,680
fair.
Yeah.

331
00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:36,880
OK what if it's now a cheap
plastic cup?

332
00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:40,880
Horrendously dirty.
One of those like 5 cent plastic

333
00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:43,640
cups.
Yeah, maybe.

334
00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:45,720
Depends.
Probably not, right?

335
00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:48,120
Probably not, right?
Depends on if I still have a

336
00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:49,680
bunch of those gold ones sitting
on the shelf.

337
00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:51,400
Yeah, yeah.
So imagine it's just that.

338
00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:53,440
I imagine you'd ignore it right
now.

339
00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:58,160
What could get you to behave the
same way on that plastic cup as

340
00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:00,120
the Gold Cup?
I imagine if there was also some

341
00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,840
money in the cup that is yours
to take if you take it and clean

342
00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:06,319
it, right, and it's some money
level, let's maybe call it a $20

343
00:17:06,319 --> 00:17:08,960
bill, you go, great, I'll take
and I'll take more.

344
00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:12,839
And I think that's the essence
of this to create cuz recycling

345
00:17:12,839 --> 00:17:16,359
is a free market system.
There is no law forcing any

346
00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:19,359
actor to behave right.
So it's all free market.

347
00:17:19,599 --> 00:17:23,480
Which means either the reason to
collect and recycle has to be

348
00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:26,160
embedded into the object, which
means the value of it needs to

349
00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,079
be good enough to bother dealing
with it.

350
00:17:28,079 --> 00:17:30,200
Like an aluminum can or a
corrugate box.

351
00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:32,840
Or it has to be given to the
object.

352
00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:35,120
If it isn't, and if we
acknowledge that the biggest

353
00:17:35,120 --> 00:17:37,760
mega trend is to move from the
Gold Cup to the plastic cup,

354
00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:40,360
everything is moving in that
direction, then it's about

355
00:17:40,360 --> 00:17:42,640
watching the money flow that's
attached on top of it.

356
00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:44,440
Yeah, yeah.
That's good.

357
00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:46,120
That's good.
Hello, ET Nation.

358
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:48,360
I want to thank you for
listening to the podcast.

359
00:17:48,360 --> 00:17:50,280
If you're enjoying the
interviews we bring you,

360
00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:53,600
consider supporting the program
by visiting my website at

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00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,600
seankgrady.com and buy me a cup
of coffee.

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Proceeds will go towards helping
me continue producing timely

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content and offset production
costs.

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404
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You know, I think, I think a lot
of people also through

405
00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,120
education, and I think that's
for another area that we don't

406
00:20:31,120 --> 00:20:36,760
really focus enough on is this
concept of educating the public

407
00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:40,440
on the value and the virtue, so
to speak, of just proper

408
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,880
recycling and having constant,
you know, like Schoolhouse Rock.

409
00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,600
I, you know, videos for kids
that that they, they can just

410
00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:49,520
have it in their background
going on.

411
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:52,200
They're learning about it and it
just constantly is playing and

412
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,360
looping through their normal
daily life.

413
00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,480
And they're always getting a
little seed planted about the

414
00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,000
value of doing this.
And I don't think that we're

415
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,520
doing enough in that space from,
you know, an education

416
00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:05,120
perspective to see the value.
Of it, yeah, I think you're

417
00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:06,360
right.
And you know, what's nice about

418
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:09,840
that theme from an education and
communication point of view is

419
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,880
reduce, reuse, recycle is the
first lesson we learn in school.

420
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:16,040
That is not a climate change
lesson.

421
00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,320
It's not a diversity of species
lesson.

422
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:21,320
It is a circular economy lesson.
It's very easy.

423
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:23,720
It's the only thing really in
sustainability that we

424
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:27,120
physically touch, you know, that
it's and we physically make a

425
00:21:27,120 --> 00:21:30,120
decision on what to do, you
know, with the with the waste.

426
00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:33,600
And I think if we drove
excitement, a huge benefit will

427
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:35,120
come.
You know, we did this study a

428
00:21:35,120 --> 00:21:37,320
number of years ago with one of
the big beverage companies where

429
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:40,040
we put out recycling bins and
trash bins and busy train

430
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:43,720
stations, and they were both
clearly marked right beside each

431
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:47,120
other, so there's no difference.
And we watched how many people

432
00:21:47,120 --> 00:21:49,880
would put the recyclable bottle,
like an aluminum can or PT

433
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,320
bottle in the recycling bin.
And honestly, it was only half.

434
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:54,040
The other half, we just throw it
in the trash bin, and they're

435
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:55,840
right fucking beside each other.
Like, yeah.

436
00:21:56,120 --> 00:21:59,440
You're like.
Yeah, then we added excitement.

437
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,880
We added some devices that when
you put in the recycling bin, it

438
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,120
would thank you, like the bin
would speak to you or it would

439
00:22:05,120 --> 00:22:08,320
create some cool sound effect.
Just some excitement, no money,

440
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:11,560
nothing else.
It went to 95% good.

441
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,440
And we even saw people pulling
out of the trash can to put in

442
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:17,560
the recycling bin or litter off
the ground and putting in the

443
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,920
recycling bin to get that fun.
And that little excitement I

444
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,240
think goes a long way.
And it's important because if

445
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,480
you look at the narrative around
recycling, I would say 20 years

446
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:30,040
ago it was there like that.
Now there's a lot of vilifying

447
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,320
at oh, recycling doesn't work.
Oh, why bother?

448
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,640
There's a lot of media around
being negative on it and

449
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:40,520
recycling isn't perfect, but it
needs to be supported as much as

450
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:43,120
possible, you know, from
communication as well.

451
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,080
I mean, I could just imagine, I
mean you could really gamify

452
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,920
that whole thing with, you know,
AI and and video cameras.

453
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,240
Now you can have those two bents
in there and submit those in a

454
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:53,840
recyclable product in the trash
and go.

455
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:56,760
Yeah, yeah.
And I think it's not and.

456
00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:00,680
Then like it goes with the right
one, they go, yeah, you know, I

457
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,320
think pause.
And it's, you know, look, it's

458
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:07,160
not that people are bad.
It's not that they are the

459
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:10,080
aluminum can consciously, Yeah,
it's not that.

460
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,760
It's that we are so busy, it's
more apathy and you can correct

461
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:15,960
that by just a little bit of
free stimulus.

462
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:16,880
It's not.
Yeah, right.

463
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,000
People for it, yeah, I think
that would be kind of a neat

464
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:23,560
little project and you see
recycling rate scope, Oh, man.

465
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,480
Certain locations, yeah, right.
Totally true.

466
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:27,360
Totally.
True.

467
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:29,280
Yeah.
Well, you know, OK, well, let's

468
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:31,840
stay on the loop concept here
because the platform is really

469
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,920
good.
And when we first spoke five

470
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:38,240
years ago, you were just kind of
getting underway with launching

471
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,200
it and then having some initial
success, which I believe, you

472
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,000
know, that was one of the
reasons I think we definitely

473
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,760
connected back then was this
whole loop concept and I thought

474
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:47,800
this is really great.
So here, you know, Loops

475
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:51,360
representing a bold vision for
reusable packaging and circular

476
00:23:51,360 --> 00:23:53,960
retail systems.
So, you know, let's maybe you

477
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:55,920
could talk a little bit about
some of the companies you're

478
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,880
working with and also, you know,
what have been the biggest

479
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:03,840
logistical or behavioral
barriers to scaling Loop

480
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,600
globally and how are you
addressing them to make them

481
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:10,600
more convenient for reuse,
eliminate single use, you know?

482
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:11,840
Yeah, no.
And it's been a lot of

483
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,320
unintuitive learning, so I look
forward to diving in.

484
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:16,640
So first, just what is Loop's
role?

485
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:18,800
Right.
So think you know, products like

486
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:22,000
a ketchup bottle or a shampoo
bottle or you know, a bottle of

487
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,280
Coke, you know, or you know,
whatever it may be, a bottle of

488
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,800
laundry insurgent.
So our role is to try to make

489
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,400
all that reusable and we have
two ways, 2 functions that Loop

490
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:32,960
does.
One is we become a system

491
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:34,800
steward.
So we are out there talking to

492
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,920
all the major producers to join
in and then all the major

493
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,440
retailers to sell this stuff
those because we don't want to

494
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,120
be a producer or a retailer.
And that's been, you know, one

495
00:24:43,120 --> 00:24:45,800
big success point on Loop is we
were able to get 200 of the

496
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:47,800
world's biggest consumer product
companies to join.

497
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,600
Think you're Unilevers, your P
and GS, your Pepsi's Cokes and

498
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,400
so on and so forth.
All the way to Nestle and P&G

499
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:55,640
are investors and part owners of
Loop and so on.

500
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:59,840
And the role when the brand
comes in is we help them enable

501
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:01,520
reusable versions of their
product.

502
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,840
How do you make sure that that
product, that package is

503
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,880
reusable, that it can go around
and our threshold is a minimum

504
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:11,040
of 10 times.
Then we go across and then work

505
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,560
with the retailers to make sure
that they dedicate shelf space

506
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:17,120
to these reusable offerings and
enable that a consumer can bring

507
00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:20,200
back the used packaging to the
store and put it into a loop

508
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:21,720
bin.
That's to call it platform

509
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,080
stewardship.
Then our operational function is

510
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,920
where the waste management
function of reuse, where we are

511
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,840
the bins, we service the bins,
we return deposits, we sort out

512
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:35,560
packaging almost like a Murph,
but down to a product level at a

513
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,720
food grade standard.
So exactly like a Murph, but the

514
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:40,920
opposite of like a quick
conveyor belt in a dirty

515
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:42,680
environment.
Think like food grade down to a

516
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,560
product level and then instead
of shredding and melting, it's

517
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:47,720
cleaning and then it goes back
to the producer.

518
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,480
They fill it up and sell it to
the next different consumer.

519
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,080
The American proxy would be
propane tanks, but imagine that

520
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:59,480
expanded to all consumable goods
from gummy vitamins to infant

521
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:01,080
ointment.
I mean, you name it, anything

522
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,600
that goes in the package.
So that's the essence.

523
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,120
Then we effectively took pilots
with all the world's biggest

524
00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:09,720
brands and retailers, like here
in the US, Walmart all the way

525
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,240
to Kroger in Canada, Loblaw,
which is their biggest retailer,

526
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,240
UK, Tesco and so on and so
forth.

527
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:20,520
Carrefour in France and we first
land on online pilots then we

528
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:22,560
transitioned that's probably
when we spoke five years ago

529
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,680
then we transitioned that to in
store pilots first interesting

530
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,080
point because we mentioned
behavior you couldn't tell the

531
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,880
difference between American, the
Japanese, the Canadian, French

532
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,600
or British consumer.
Everyone behaved the same.

533
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,600
They were totally fine with it,
liked it, did the returns all.

534
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:42,560
And in fact, all five countries
don't have active package reuse

535
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,160
systems on them today.
It's not like the French public

536
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,920
are returning, you know, like in
Germany, for example, where you

537
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:52,400
do return your beer bottles and
certain soda bottles for deposit

538
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:53,640
and refill.
Yeah.

539
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,400
So that all went well.
Then we're able to get into

540
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:58,760
pilots, 10 store pilots, give or
take, you know, in all these

541
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:00,120
markets.
And that all went well.

542
00:27:00,120 --> 00:27:03,400
And that's where we really saw a
big differential between France

543
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:05,680
and everywhere else.
France continued to scale

544
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,760
aggressively.
And in all other markets, we

545
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:09,080
were not able to get out of
pilots.

546
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,640
So we shut those down.
And France became this whole

547
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,600
sort of, you know, bastion of
success, while everywhere else

548
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,120
we shuttered.
And the big reason is the

549
00:27:17,120 --> 00:27:18,560
regulatory environment in
France.

550
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,240
There's mandates mandating that
reduce must, you know, be

551
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,480
adopted at a certain scale by
2027.

552
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,720
And their subsidies helped
offset some of the early

553
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,200
adoption costs.
So that allowed us to really

554
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,200
scale.
Now, what are the some of the

555
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,480
unintuitive learnings?
And these were, I'll give you 2

556
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,960
of the biggest ones that like I,
you know, wow, I had no idea

557
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:39,240
this was the case till we
learned it.

558
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:44,560
The first is consumer behavior.
Because when you talk to a

559
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,360
brand, when you think consumer,
if it's an oral care brand, you

560
00:27:47,360 --> 00:27:49,280
are only thinking about the
consumer behavior around

561
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,400
toothpaste.
Or if you talk to a Coca-Cola,

562
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,240
it's only around the consumer
behavior around a can of Coke.

563
00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:55,280
Right.
Yeah, yeah.

564
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:57,280
And you get really sort of
pigeon holed.

565
00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:59,720
But the reality is when you and
I go shopping, we're not

566
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:01,920
thinking about toothpaste or or
coke.

567
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,400
We're thinking about shopping
and getting in and out of that

568
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,600
shop quickly and efficiently
and, you know, getting what our

569
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:08,720
family want.
Yeah.

570
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:12,200
So here's a good example of
something unintuitive when we

571
00:28:12,360 --> 00:28:16,560
did, let's say, a reuse display
with five products only, and

572
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,040
this would be in France.
An example was like a Heineken,

573
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,240
maybe a still and sparkling
water with Damon and then like

574
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:24,680
two different Coke flavors with
Coke, like 5 products.

575
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,360
The sales were pretty low and
the return rates were dismal,

576
00:28:28,360 --> 00:28:30,240
like 10% of the packaging would
come back.

577
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,480
Then you do the exact same
store, same everything, but go

578
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,080
to 50 products.
So all those same water, coke,

579
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:39,360
beer, but then you add on
shampoo, conditioner, chickpeas,

580
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,000
you name it, a whole random
assortment of 50 products.

581
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:47,320
The purchase rates go up close
to 2000% more per product

582
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:51,440
increase in sales and the return
rates go from failure like 1015%

583
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,920
to 8090%, which is a great
success.

584
00:28:54,720 --> 00:29:00,040
And So what that taught us is
consumers won't do reuse in like

585
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:04,000
a product by product vacuum.
They will either do it big if

586
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,000
there's a lot of choice or not
do it at all.

587
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,480
And that includes the purchase
and especially the return, which

588
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:10,960
is a key KPI in the world of
reuse.

589
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:15,200
I could see that I because, you
know, basically it takes too

590
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:19,320
much effort to sort out the one
or two or five pieces versus the

591
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,160
50 pieces they currently do
every day.

592
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,440
They're like, I just want to do
it all at once or not at all

593
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:24,160
because it's.
Too much.

594
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:26,760
You know, the best metaphor is
I'm not going to make an organic

595
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:28,320
salad with just organic
tomatoes.

596
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:32,560
Yeah, So that and there's lots
of derivatives of that learning

597
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:34,440
that came up.
But that was a big one for us,

598
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,880
which means that reuse has got
to go big systemic or has no

599
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,760
chance of success.
Another was when we first

600
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:45,040
started Loop, we got really
seduced and so did all of our

601
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:49,520
partners by the idea that when
you move to reuse, the package

602
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:53,520
suddenly becomes a depreciatable
asset and not a cost of goods

603
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:55,240
sold.
In other words, in a disposable

604
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,920
package, you got to embed the
entire price of that package

605
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:01,560
into the singular purchase at
100% because the consumer owns

606
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:03,480
the package in the end and you
never get it back.

607
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:08,400
In reuse, you embed only the use
of that package.

608
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,320
So if that package is going to
go around 30 times, every

609
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:15,240
consumer is only charged 130th
of the cost because it becomes a

610
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,360
depreciatable asset.
And what that opens up is the

611
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:21,240
ability for the package to
become incredibly beautiful,

612
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,560
like Haagen Dazs containers made
from stainless steel with

613
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,000
insulation properties and like
the best type package you've

614
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,800
ever seen or Cascade package
ever museum quality type stuff.

615
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:36,960
And that is true, but we forgot
the pragmatic, which is that a

616
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,160
consumer product company like
Nestle is wonderful at making

617
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:44,200
anything in small volume out of
a lab and then great at making

618
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,600
it a massive volume, but really
can't do anything in between

619
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,280
those two book ads.
And so suddenly in some of these

620
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,880
pilots where we were fulfilling
these beautiful, gorgeous

621
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:56,720
packages at 5 stores, 10 stores,
producers came to us and said,

622
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:00,440
that's all great, but don't call
us until you're at 1000 stores

623
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:02,600
because we can't fulfill
anything in between that.

624
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,160
And remember the first lesson,
which is you need a massive

625
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,360
assortment.
Suddenly you have this no man's

626
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,600
land of how do you, because the
retailers can't scale that fast

627
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:13,600
because they're scaling a
system, you know, so you got to

628
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,160
scale it like 20 stores here, 50
stores there.

629
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:20,080
And so that took us on this
whole journey of how do we solve

630
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:22,720
that?
And what we realized is if you

631
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:26,080
take all packaging forms in the
world, all of them something

632
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,040
that packages the content and
you put them on one end of the

633
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,840
spectrum, the most expensive
packs per kilo or liter of what

634
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,040
you're packaging.
Think perfume bottles, laundry

635
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,120
detergent bottles, the wine
bottle, Scotch bottles, things

636
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,000
of that nature.
And on the other end, you put

637
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,840
the cheapest way to package a
kilo or liter thing, flexible

638
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:45,120
film, you know, yeah, even like
even cheaper like a pouch, you

639
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:47,560
know, or a or a bag for
potatoes, right.

640
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:52,880
Put it over there.
Yeah that bottom third those

641
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,920
packages, most of them already
conducive to reuse like a Scotch

642
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:57,720
bottle.
You don't have to improve its

643
00:31:57,720 --> 00:31:59,640
quality to be able to have it to
go around.

644
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:01,960
It's honestly way over designed
to be used.

645
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,800
Once way over designed it can
easily be cleaned and refilled

646
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:10,160
and boom, no package change.
And in fact 1/3 of packaging on

647
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:14,200
a supermarket is already
conducive to reuse with next to

648
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,160
NO0 to next to no changes at
all.

649
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:19,800
And those you can scale through
that no man's land.

650
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,920
Yeah, wow.
And so there's a lot of these

651
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,720
sort of very interesting
unintuitive things, but I think

652
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,840
the key punch lines are it's not
the consumer at all.

653
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:34,240
It's entirely about getting the
businesses to go through the

654
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,240
journey because the consumers,
they're willing and good to go.

655
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:42,360
Yeah, yeah.
I kind of feel like most people

656
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,960
would or will recycle.
Yeah.

657
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,880
Providing it's, you know, I
think either easy, right?

658
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:51,680
You know, it's easy.
I mean, let's just be honest,

659
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:54,600
everybody wants to make it easy.
So if it's easy, then you know,

660
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:56,760
then that's going to be
something they'll do.

661
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:01,920
I think more people would do it
if there is more education.

662
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:05,120
So they're more aware in certain
communities.

663
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:07,720
I think there are probably less
interest.

664
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:11,080
And I think some certain age
groups of people are like left.

665
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:14,480
I would have to say some of the
older people in like baby

666
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:16,960
boomers are probably like, ah,
you know, whatever.

667
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,400
But then, you know, GN Xers and
Millennials, the GN ZS are

668
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,120
really.
Like God, it's the younger are

669
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:24,560
indexing high because that
they're the future of where the

670
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:28,960
planets moving and it tends to
be greater greater for kids that

671
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,400
have grown up where climate
change has been the thing their

672
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,320
whole lives versus like you and
I, you know, it wasn't a thing

673
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:36,240
when we were born.
Yeah, exactly.

674
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,480
So they're, they're and they're
putting their money where their

675
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,480
mouth is on their value
purchasing too, right.

676
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:43,880
You know, they're, they're
really doing that, which is

677
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:45,120
good, which is cool.
I mean.

678
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,680
Look, I that that gives good
optimism, you know, and I don't

679
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:50,600
think it's rocket science to
solve this stuff.

680
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:51,880
It isn't.
Yeah, yeah.

681
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:57,800
You know, so I've been on
Facebook a lot lately and I for

682
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:01,080
some reason have got the right
algorithm going on because.

683
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:06,320
You're the right.
And I see his terror cycles with

684
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:10,960
this big IPO reggae going on.
Let's dive into that talk about

685
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:12,679
that.
I think that's pretty exciting.

686
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,159
And let's see, you know, maybe,
maybe you'll entice a few

687
00:34:16,159 --> 00:34:18,159
listeners to invest.
Yeah.

688
00:34:18,199 --> 00:34:20,080
Well, thank you.
You know, absolutely.

689
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:24,400
So first and foremost, you can
learn all about everything that

690
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,800
I'm going to describe in a
moment at invest.terracycle.com.

691
00:34:28,159 --> 00:34:32,159
And we do file with the SEC now
for gosh, five years our U.S.

692
00:34:32,159 --> 00:34:33,840
company.
So all that financial

693
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,639
information is posted on
sec.gov.

694
00:34:36,679 --> 00:34:39,400
And I would really recommend if
anything's interesting what I'm

695
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:41,520
about to say, please, please
download those filings.

696
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,639
And you know, do you know your
own review, but that we are in

697
00:34:44,639 --> 00:34:48,560
the middle of a major capital
raise through what's called a

698
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:52,760
Regulation CF and then later
will be a Regulation A financing

699
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:56,480
where basically folks can invest
a minimum of $1000 and invest

700
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:58,400
and own a part of Terrace Cycle
US.

701
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,440
And we did this the first time
five years ago, actually very

702
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:04,040
close to the time you and I
chatted last, where we raised

703
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,440
$19,000,000 into Terrace Cycle
US.

704
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,520
And what's nice is if you
invested in that, in that time,

705
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:11,760
you would have already gotten
back I think somewhere between

706
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,720
17 and 20% of your invested
capital and dividends.

707
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:17,920
And that capital allowed us to
really grow the company which

708
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:22,600
grew during that period, I think
75% in, in scale like quite, you

709
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,000
know, quite a bit.
We did that through doing 3

710
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,000
really exciting acquisitions in
the US, you know, looking at

711
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,640
companies that do e-waste
recycling or battery recycling,

712
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:33,960
light bulb, these are these
specialty recycling groups.

713
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,280
And this is something that we're
excited to do again.

714
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,680
You know, we've been profitable
for over a decade or we've seen

715
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,120
really good growth.
And at some point in time, we

716
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:45,800
would love to get to a liquidity
event like an IPO.

717
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,560
And this is the like the right
thing for us to do now to like,

718
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:50,840
you know, really gear us up for
some fast growth before

719
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:52,560
something like that might, might
occur.

720
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:55,440
So we're really pumped about it.
The, you know, investors the

721
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:57,120
first time around, I think have
done very well.

722
00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,360
A lot of those guys have
reinvested in this round.

723
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,640
And again, at
invest.terracycle.com, there's

724
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:06,000
all sorts of information, but I
especially encourage folks to go

725
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,560
to the SEC filings because there
you get incredible transparency

726
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:11,840
into the company's financials
and its goals and so on.

727
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:15,760
Yeah, no, that's great, Tom.
And I like I said, I really like

728
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,520
the ads that are out there and
kind of how you're, you know,

729
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,680
talk about changing the the
mentality of recycling and, you

730
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:26,200
know, recycling those difficult
waste streams or those weird

731
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:30,320
things that people don't think
about, you know, and and I think

732
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:32,280
you guys are tackling some
challenging ones, which is

733
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,000
really good.
I mean, and, and I mean there

734
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:38,160
are other companies doing
similar or something at scale

735
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:42,920
with a large, you know,
investment in recycling plastics

736
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,520
and things like that.
But I think you guys are doing

737
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:49,920
some really cool stuff there and
so excited to see you guys get

738
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,680
some investment revenue coming
in.

739
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:57,440
So how much longer is the IPO or
the the reggae, you know,

740
00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:59,840
offering going to be open?
For you guys for.

741
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:02,320
Investors.
Right now we are in what's

742
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:05,000
called The Reg CF which comes
before the reggae.

743
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:08,320
That's for $5,000,000.
We are as of today around I

744
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:10,120
think just over 3,000,000 has
come in.

745
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:12,680
We expect that to close, you
know, probably by end of this

746
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:14,880
month.
It's, it's really accelerating

747
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,400
quite nicely.
Then we go through the process

748
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:21,200
with the SEC to approve the
reggae and that would probably

749
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:23,240
assuming approval though we got
it last time.

750
00:37:23,240 --> 00:37:25,640
So I'm, you know, not too
concerned, but assuming that

751
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,480
goes live early next year and
there we would raise potentially

752
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:33,160
up to 75,000,000 during 2026.
And this allows us because we

753
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:35,320
don't have losses, it's not
about plugging losses, it's

754
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,600
about really increasing
investment into organic growth

755
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,880
and doing some really good
strategic MNA as well.

756
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,400
And so we're really pumped to be
able to lean in on doing that.

757
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,480
And you know, we should based on
the CF be able to announce an

758
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:49,440
acquisition early next year that
we're working on.

759
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,680
And then if we do the reggae,
then do some even more bigger

760
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:54,560
ones ideally.
That'd be great.

761
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:58,200
Well, you know, one of the
little benefits for investors or

762
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:02,040
potential investors who are
considering right now is talk

763
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:06,040
about this real quick is there's
you could earn a 10% bonus.

764
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,560
That's right.
You know, let's get the

765
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:10,040
enticements a little stronger
here.

766
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,240
The yeah, yeah, absolutely.
So in when you go to

767
00:38:13,240 --> 00:38:16,960
invest.terracycle.com, you'll
see there this idea of bonus

768
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:18,880
shares.
This is unique to this first 5

769
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:20,280
million only.
This is not going to be

770
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:25,160
available in in the reggae and
they're effectively depending on

771
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:28,280
when you invest, you can get, I
think if I'm not mistaken, up to

772
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,320
25% extra share.
So basically what that means is

773
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:35,000
if you invest a dollar, it
behaves as if you invested $1.25

774
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:35,640
got.
You.

775
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:37,480
Yeah.
So you just get more equity.

776
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:40,640
And what's nice is, you know,
every year, historically, we've

777
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:42,880
paid out dividends.
You know, so you get a dividend

778
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:46,960
check from us and then the
equity value grows as we get

779
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:48,640
bigger.
Well, that's great.

780
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,240
I mean, I think you guys are
going to do well with that.

781
00:38:51,240 --> 00:38:54,000
And for the audience listeners,
I, you know, recommend you guys

782
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,280
check it out and if it makes
financial sense for you guys,

783
00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:00,360
jump in and I'm sure Tom and
Terra Cycle would love to have

784
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:02,080
you guys invest.
We would, absolutely.

785
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:04,840
You know, let's let's dive in if
we could a little bit about some

786
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:08,200
of your partnerships.
I mean, you guys are a process,

787
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,000
you process a lot of stuff, but
you don't manufacture really

788
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,680
anything that I know of and you
don't really have a tremendous

789
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,960
amount of assets in person.
I mean, you got some, but I

790
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:20,640
mean, talk about your
partnership network.

791
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:22,880
I mean, terror cycle success
relies heavily on these

792
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,920
partnerships with some of the
world's largest consumer good

793
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:29,200
companies, which is huge.
And then also, you know, how do

794
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:32,400
you navigate the tension between
partnering with the major

795
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:36,680
plastic producer and, you know,
also advocating for waste

796
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:40,000
reduction in circular design?
You know, it's like, yeah, yeah,

797
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,160
yeah, yeah, absolutely.
So first and foremost, how does

798
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:46,000
our model work, right?
Like we are only dealing with

799
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:48,440
things that are not locally
recyclable, which are not

800
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,680
locally recyclable, like a
Gillette razor blade to a RIP

801
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:54,880
curl wetsuit because it costs
more to collect and recycle than

802
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,600
the results are worth.
So we need funding from a

803
00:39:57,600 --> 00:39:59,840
stakeholder to be able to offset
those economics.

804
00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:01,600
And that could come from a
producer.

805
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,240
And we're very proud that we
work with most major producers

806
00:40:04,240 --> 00:40:06,200
out there.
You know, from your Nike shoes

807
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,520
all the way to your Ferrero
chocolates, right?

808
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:10,360
And hundreds and hundreds in
between.

809
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:13,280
Over 40,000 clients.
It could be retailers like your

810
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,440
Walmart all the way to
boutiques, you know, like

811
00:40:16,240 --> 00:40:18,000
Akhil's Boutique and so on and
so forth.

812
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:22,000
And we get funding to then be
able to effectively make

813
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:23,800
recycling for these objects
work.

814
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:26,240
That's the sort of business
model, if you will.

815
00:40:26,240 --> 00:40:28,600
And the funding can come from,
you know, these big producers,

816
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:30,600
They could also come from direct
consumer purchases.

817
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:32,880
People can go to our website.
We always recommend if you do go

818
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:35,760
to terracycle.com, check out the
free programs first that are

819
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,720
paid for by these partners.
And then if you still want to

820
00:40:38,720 --> 00:40:40,840
recycle something where there's
not a free program, use one of

821
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:43,400
our paid services where you
effectively are picking up that

822
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:45,040
that bill.
That would be like our zero

823
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:48,920
waste box division and so on.
That solves the economics.

824
00:40:49,240 --> 00:40:52,880
Then our operations, you know,
we have collection, sorting and

825
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,720
processing and we own and
operate about 25% of our supply

826
00:40:55,720 --> 00:40:59,040
chain and then we use different
third parties for the other 75%.

827
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:01,960
So for example, in logistics we
own and operate a lot of our

828
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:05,120
regulated waste logistics.
You need a lot of permits and

829
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:08,200
you know, and capability for
that, while waste that doesn't

830
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:10,560
require permits to move around,
we use third parties.

831
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:14,120
And in that process, what we do
is we basically take the waste

832
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:16,480
and we give a legal guarantee
that we recycle everything,

833
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:19,040
which is quite unique.
And then from there, we find

834
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:21,800
manufacturers who need these
inputs to make their products.

835
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:24,200
So it could be like chip bags
turn into automotive parts or

836
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:27,800
let's say baby food pouches turn
into drainage pipes and things

837
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:30,800
of that of that nature.
What's really exciting to us

838
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:33,240
though, and this goes back to
the partners, is when the

839
00:41:33,240 --> 00:41:37,440
partners want to take that waste
back into their ecosystem.

840
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,800
And this would look like with
Pilot pens, we've commercialized

841
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,880
the world's first pen from used
pens in our Japanese division or

842
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:47,880
with ASIC shoes, they're for
shoe made from used shoes and a

843
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:49,800
ton of other examples.
Like, we love it when the

844
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,480
partners don't just want to see
that object get recycled, like

845
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,640
Asic's wanting to see shoes get
recycled, but then say, how do I

846
00:41:55,880 --> 00:42:00,240
help make shoes from that
recycled output to us, that's

847
00:42:00,240 --> 00:42:02,760
phenomenally exciting and starts
doing what you were talking

848
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,600
about earlier is keep these
materials domestic, keep them in

849
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:08,480
the supply chains.
And then it also reduces the

850
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:12,360
need to do new extraction, which
is the number one cause of all

851
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:15,440
environmental harm is
extraction, farming, mining,

852
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:18,160
those sort of things.
Yeah, yeah, I know, absolutely.

853
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:19,680
I mean that's, that's really
good.

854
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:21,600
Lots to go there.
I mean, you know the your

855
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:24,520
downstream partners too, I mean
that you're partnering with I'm

856
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:29,160
sure are are really important
for you guys and you know, you

857
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:32,360
probably have a handful of a
handful hundreds of them

858
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:35,240
probably across the country.
You know that there that's a

859
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:38,000
that's like the lifeline for a
lot of your business, right?

860
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:41,920
Yeah, Yeah, it's very important.
The distinction though is we

861
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:45,160
don't depend on certain raw
material prices being hit.

862
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:48,080
This is one of the really magic
sauces in our business is almost

863
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,640
all other recyclers need a
material to be at a certain

864
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:54,200
price to make the engine work
because the key revenue is

865
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:56,840
selling that material.
So if you're a polypropylene

866
00:42:56,840 --> 00:43:01,600
recycler or APET recycler, you
need polypropylene and PET to

867
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:03,840
hit a price for your business to
be profitable.

868
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:05,240
When it goes up, it's even more
profitable.

869
00:43:05,240 --> 00:43:07,520
And inversely, it's sort of like
a drilling for oil.

870
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:10,360
If you know the price per barrel
goes down below a threshold,

871
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:12,800
certain drilling activity
doesn't make sense anymore.

872
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:13,800
Yeah.
Right.

873
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:18,080
We are really different because
the economics for us are not the

874
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:19,920
key.
The the economics of the output

875
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:21,920
materials are not a key driver,
right?

876
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:25,480
They are a subsidy, but they are
not really going to materially

877
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:28,840
affect the price because for us
these waste streams were never

878
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:31,920
profitable to recycle.
It never made economic sense to

879
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:34,640
recycle a pen.
And the value of the resulting

880
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:38,120
pen plastic maybe affects the
economics 10% one way or

881
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:40,120
another.
But it's not the material driver

882
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:44,440
that allows us to to say we can
sell the materials at whatever

883
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:47,560
the market can absorb them at.
So we don't have this issue of

884
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:50,160
we got to wait till raw
materials hit a certain value.

885
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:54,960
That's really good.
You know, technology has really

886
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:58,760
advanced a lot in the past five
years since we've spoken and not

887
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:02,160
that it there wasn't already
present then, but it seems like,

888
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,400
you know, it's, you know,
exponentially advanced.

889
00:44:05,720 --> 00:44:09,320
And since then, how's Terra
Cycle investing in technology,

890
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:12,720
especially around AI, data
analytics, tracking systems,

891
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:16,320
things like that to improve the
material traceability you're,

892
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:20,000
you know, optimizing recycling
streams, providing more accurate

893
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:23,280
ESG reporting for your partners.
What are you guys doing in that

894
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:24,920
space?
How much you investing in that

895
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:26,640
space?
You know what's talk about that?

896
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:28,200
Yeah, absolutely.
Quite a bit.

897
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:31,280
Not an AI to be fair, right.
I mean we use AI as a tool,

898
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:34,760
right, But it's not like, you
know, a key operational

899
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:36,960
investment area, but a lot of
other areas.

900
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:39,240
We just opened a multi
$1,000,000 laboratory here in

901
00:44:39,240 --> 00:44:41,040
our Trent, New Jersey
headquarters looking at

902
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:44,920
mechanical and chemical
recycling innovation as well as

903
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:48,320
we use cleaning innovation.
That's been a big one from the

904
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:50,240
R&D center that's been a long
time coming.

905
00:44:50,720 --> 00:44:54,920
We also put a lot of effort into
track and trace where it's big

906
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:57,840
investments in the third party
auditing all the way to systems

907
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:00,960
that we can trace the material
all the way through our supply

908
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:02,560
chain.
This allows our brand partners

909
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:06,360
to make legal claims around, you
know recycling occurring and

910
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:09,160
allows us to be able to make a
guarantee that all waste we

911
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:12,080
collect will be recycled.
That's a really, really, really

912
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:14,480
big one.
Then where we invest quite a

913
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:19,040
bit, like total investment of
dollars is into new equipment

914
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:22,480
for our processing partners.
So we may not run a processing

915
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:25,400
facility, but we'll come into a
processing site and be like,

916
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:28,400
hey, here's $1,000,000, you
know, a line that you can then

917
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:30,680
implement, attach it to your
production and now you can

918
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:33,520
recycle cigarette butts or now
you can recycle cosmetic waste

919
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:35,920
or whatever the waste stream may
be.

920
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,840
That's been probably fiscally by
far the biggest area of

921
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:42,640
investment for us is boosting
the capability of processors by

922
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:44,320
doing equipment investments into
them.

923
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:47,160
OK.
I mean, that's great.

924
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:48,040
That's good.
I mean.

925
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:50,640
The other thing too to note
there is we believe that there's

926
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:53,120
no silver bullet solution.
So we, you know, many people

927
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:55,760
have asked us like, hey, is it
mechanical solutions or chemical

928
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:58,040
solutions?
We use both wherever they are

929
00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:00,720
the most prudent.
And what we find is that what

930
00:46:00,720 --> 00:46:03,840
tends to come out, especially in
complex waste streams is a lot

931
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:06,480
of mechanical components and
then maybe a chemical process

932
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:09,840
here like a solvent process or a
depolymerization process.

933
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:13,000
They're mixed in with a lot of
mechanical processes.

934
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:17,840
So how, how are you helping
these companies with their

935
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:20,200
reporting of, you know,
sustainability because that

936
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:23,040
seems to be one of the things I
think is maybe a, a

937
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:27,680
differentiator and or you know,
you know, it's added value to

938
00:46:27,720 --> 00:46:30,400
the whole business.
This is a very important part,

939
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:32,840
right.
So in reporting what we can do

940
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:36,000
is basically track in our
recycling programs exactly how

941
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:38,480
much of that waste stream was
generated every location, you

942
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:41,280
know, down to the day all the
way through the supply chain.

943
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:43,720
This allows folks the big part
of reporting now in the US is

944
00:46:43,720 --> 00:46:47,040
compliance with EPR.
And so we work the biggest PRO

945
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:49,120
there is CAA.
And so we work to be able to

946
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:51,760
register the volumes of what
these different companies

947
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:54,560
collect and recycle that is
subject to EPR so that they can

948
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:58,960
really say, hey, we are, you
know, voluntarily recycling this

949
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:00,760
percent of our waste stream in
this state.

950
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:03,280
Here's how it's flowing through
the whole system all the way to

951
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:06,920
end market.
Are there any big elephants

952
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:10,760
still out there for EPR that
companies haven't really jumped

953
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:13,880
in on to establish?
You know.

954
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:18,200
Establish a recycling circular
business to to manage that.

955
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:21,600
I would say from a EPR in
specific, EPR still embryonic,

956
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:24,240
right, like where have we seen
EPR come out in the US is

957
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:27,040
regulated waste streams, you
know, think paint, aerosols,

958
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:30,160
batteries, you know, universal
waste per SE there.

959
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:32,160
It's been there for a long time
because those are hazardous

960
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:35,800
materials and a good industry is
really popped up as you know to

961
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:37,720
serve that.
Where it's coming now is

962
00:47:37,720 --> 00:47:40,200
packaging and we're going to see
that state by state.

963
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:43,560
But what's left is all the
product that's in that

964
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:46,760
packaging, which all becomes
waste 99% within the year of

965
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:48,600
purchase.
Yeah, yeah, right.

966
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:52,320
And that you see in more EPR
advanced countries like France

967
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:54,680
coming already.
But that's that's going to come,

968
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:57,480
I think in the US over the next
coming decades.

969
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:02,080
OK, all right.
Well, I mean, I've been watching

970
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:05,280
another one company they they
recycle tires.

971
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:07,400
Yeah, called pre tread.
I don't know if you've heard of

972
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:10,840
them, but they're amazing firm.
What they do is they do every

973
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:14,040
they recycle every bit of the
tire and then they make Rd.

974
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:16,040
barriers out of it.
That's really nice.

975
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:17,320
That's.
You know, instead of the

976
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:18,960
concrete ones you see out there
or the.

977
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:21,760
Big, You know, with electric
cars, tire waste goes up.

978
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:25,680
Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're much
heavier.

979
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:28,400
So you're, you know, using up
that rubber at a much faster

980
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:29,480
pace.
Yeah.

981
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:32,040
So they, they've been, they've
been solving that unique

982
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:34,280
challenge and and doing a great
job.

983
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:37,880
And that company's called Pre
Tread and yeah, I encourage you

984
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:38,800
to check them out.
They're pretty good.

985
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:42,440
They're, I like them good
business model, you know, the

986
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:44,720
consumer role and behavior
changes.

987
00:48:44,720 --> 00:48:48,040
Many sustainability solutions
depend on this, like active

988
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:50,720
consumer participation.
But based on your experience,

989
00:48:50,720 --> 00:48:53,920
what strategies have you have
proven most effective at

990
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:58,040
motivating consumers engage in
recycling and reuse?

991
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:00,360
I mean, a lot like, I think
we've been talking a little bit

992
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:02,080
about it.
It's the money like, like.

993
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:05,320
Yep, Yep.
If I'm going to pay, you know,

994
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:08,480
go back to the old days when you
put a deposit down for, you

995
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:11,000
know, a six pack of Coke or 8
pack of Coke bottles, right?

996
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:15,280
You know, is that really the big
share it here or something else

997
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:17,560
that we can do?
I'll answer it for reuse because

998
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:20,600
that's the, you know, the the
area where people think there's

999
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:23,360
the most behavior change.
So the golden rule for us in

1000
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:27,680
Loop is we need reuse behavior
to behave like disposability.

1001
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:29,680
We want it to feel like
disposability.

1002
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:32,800
In other words, have the person
do the least amount of shift

1003
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:34,200
possible.
I think that's the most

1004
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:37,160
important behavior.
Shift is don't actually try to

1005
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:38,920
go for shift if you can avoid
it.

1006
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:42,880
So everything we do and we use
it to make it mimic A throwaway

1007
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:45,640
sort of process.
A good example is when you

1008
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:50,080
return the loop bottles, we give
you the option of a reusable

1009
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:52,280
garbage bag.
So you put in all the bottles

1010
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:54,600
like a garbage bag and you just
drop off the garbage bag and

1011
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:57,680
people love that because it
echoes the concept of waste.

1012
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:01,320
So that's really important is to
in behavior change, first go for

1013
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:02,520
the least amount of behavior
change.

1014
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:05,520
Then what are the other vectors?
It's three, you know, that

1015
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:07,920
really drive behavior change.
It's economic incentive.

1016
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:10,680
You know, that would be like
getting a deposit back in reuse.

1017
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:13,840
It is fun.
How do you smile?

1018
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:16,160
How do you, you know, like like
some of the examples we talked

1019
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:19,040
about earlier, like create
happiness and happiness can come

1020
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:20,400
from fun.
It can come from feeling

1021
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:22,760
purposeful, doing the right
thing, you know all that.

1022
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:24,480
And that's a really important
motivator.

1023
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:26,920
And then the third is you got to
communicate it.

1024
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:30,360
People have to be aware and we
use our biggest test for good

1025
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:32,520
communication on packaging is
the spouse test.

1026
00:50:32,720 --> 00:50:34,920
The spouse test is person A
bought the thing and it's

1027
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:37,640
totally aware of how it
functions, but the last drop was

1028
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:40,520
consumed by person B and they
need to know what to do.

1029
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:43,560
And that comes through in really
good communication.

1030
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:46,920
And it's those three things that
really help create, you know,

1031
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:48,680
the solutions.
Don't ask for behavior change

1032
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:50,640
and then motivate it with those
3 vectors.

1033
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:52,320
Yeah, Yeah.
That's good.

1034
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:53,840
That's good.
Yeah, I would agree.

1035
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:57,560
And and that more education
would be really be like we've

1036
00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:00,360
touched on it earlier, but the
education seems to be the one

1037
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:04,200
kind of I think I think we could
easily do right.

1038
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:07,240
Well, you know, Hey, Tom, thanks
for coming on to the show.

1039
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:10,680
I I've got one last questions.
You look ahead at 20-30.

1040
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:14,280
You know, what does the future
for Terror Cycle look like for

1041
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:15,960
you and Loop?
We're really excited.

1042
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:18,600
You know, we are seeing
continuous growth by then you

1043
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:22,400
know, we we hope to have hit our
liquidity event and you know

1044
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:25,600
we're getting there by investing
in recycling, hard to recycle

1045
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:28,520
materials, recycled content,
especially reuse we think is a

1046
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:30,920
huge game changer.
And by 20-30, I think we'll be

1047
00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:34,720
even more mature.
And yeah, for us, it's a very

1048
00:51:34,720 --> 00:51:37,560
exciting moment.
And it's nice to see that

1049
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:40,240
there's a lot of good tailwind
all over the world, you know,

1050
00:51:40,240 --> 00:51:43,280
pushing these ideas forward.
Yeah, even even though there's

1051
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:46,520
been a little bit of a, you
know, poo on, you know, climate

1052
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:50,200
change.
I think it's like it's a

1053
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:52,600
reprieve, you know what I mean?
I don't think anyone believes

1054
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:53,920
that.
Like we solve climate change.

1055
00:51:54,240 --> 00:51:55,040
Yeah.
Yeah.

1056
00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:56,840
We're just taking a break from
caring for a moment.

1057
00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:00,000
Yeah.
But I think still there's a lot

1058
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:02,800
of people in the business world
that are still like, no, we're

1059
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:05,240
doing this because it's, you
know, it's, it's the right thing

1060
00:52:05,240 --> 00:52:06,760
to do, right?
Exactly right.

1061
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:12,040
So, well, hey, good luck to you
and this, you know your, your

1062
00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:15,960
investment efforts there with
the stock and investment.

1063
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:18,480
I think it's going to be great.
And thanks for coming on the

1064
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:20,200
show.
It's been great to talk with you

1065
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:23,400
again and, and maybe highlight
all the the great stuff you guys

1066
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:25,760
are doing.
And yeah, let's keep the

1067
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:28,720
conversation going and we'll
talk soon, OK?

1068
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:30,480
We look forward to it.
Thank you so much.

1069
00:52:30,720 --> 00:52:32,440
Thanks for listening and
watching the show.

1070
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:35,000
If you enjoyed the show then
please share it with your

1071
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:38,320
friends and coworkers on social
media and tell somebody in

1072
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:40,480
person.
Thanks for being with us, ET

1073
00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:41,120
Nation.