How Alan McKim Built Clean Harbors into a Five Billion Dollar Environmental Services Company

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So I was 24 when I started Clean
Harvest.

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I had no clue on how big this
company was going to get.

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As you can imagine, I was
interested in starting a

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business.
I had been working in the

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environmental space prior to
that.

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I left Northeastern University
to actually work full time in

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the environmental industry.
My boss was a former Boston

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Patriot football player and I
really enjoyed working for him.

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And tragically he died of a
heart attack at 46 years old.

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And because of that and changes
that were happening after he

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passed away, I decided I want to
go off and kind of do my own

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thing and never in my wildest
dreams that I think we would

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ever grow to the size that we're
at today.

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Welcome to the Environmental
Transformation Podcast, where we

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bring you interviews with
industry leaders, climate

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professionals making an impact
in their businesses today.

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Each leader solving complex
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expertise.

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I'm your host, Sean Grady, and
thanks for joining us today.

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Before we jump in, make sure to
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Now let's get started.
Welcome to the Environmental

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Transformation podcast.
I'm your host, Sean Grady, and

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today's guest is the former CEO
of Clean Harbors.

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He's now the Chairman of the
board.

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And Alan Mccab, he's the
founding member of Clean

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Harbors.
He's founded the company in

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1980.
I established Clean Harbors in

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to become one of North America's
leading providers of

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environmental and industrial
services.

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They're probably the largest in
the country at this point with

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revenues over a $5 billion.
So this key, this man is a real

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entrepreneur that started from
just basically four guys and a

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truck.
So I'm really excited to bring

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Alan on the show today.
And you know, Alan has grown

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Clean Harbor steadily over the
years, over 4 decades really

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through M&A and acquisitions of
over 60 companies.

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And he's really become one of
the leading, you know, providers

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of these services.
He's his organization is over

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20,000 people.
He's got over 10,000 vehicles in

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his transportation fleet and
network, over 700 locations and

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service centers and 100
permitted waste facility, which

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is amazing.
And I think another interesting,

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you know, tidbit about Alan that
maybe some of you don't know,

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but he was on Undercover Boss
and I really thought I saw the,

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the, the episode on Undercover
Boss.

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And Alan, you did a fantastic
job of getting in there and

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getting your hands dirty and see
what it is on the front lines.

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We're going to talk about that
in just a few minutes.

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But the one of the reasons we're
here to talk today is about your

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book, a great book called Doing
the Doing.

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And I want to share with our
listeners that book and and you

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know, the insights that you gave
in that book.

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And so, Alan, welcome to the
show.

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It's great to be with you and
thank you very much for having

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me.
Absolutely.

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I mean, when you look back, you
know, back in when you founded

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the company in 1980, was your
ultimate vision to always become

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like the largest environmental
industrial services provider in

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the country?
Or did that kind of vision

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evolve over time and you know,
as you kind of grew with the

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regulatory landscape and
whatnot?

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Talk a little bit about that if
you could.

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Sure.
So I was 24 when I started Clean

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Harbors and I had no clue on how
big this company was going to

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get.
As you can imagine, back then it

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was I was interested in starting
a business.

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I had been working in the
environmental space prior to

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that.
I left Northeastern University

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to actually work full time in
the environmental industry and

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my boss was a former Boston
Patriot football player and I

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really enjoyed working for him
and tragically died of a heart

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attack at 46 years old.
And because of that and changes

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that were happening after he
passed away, I decided I want to

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go off and kind of do my own
thing.

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And never in my wildest dreams
that I think we would ever grow

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to the size that we're at today.
Wow, I'm sure it's been just an

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amazing journey or a ride, so to
speak, up and down.

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I'm sure there was some roller
coasters and ups and downs and

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valleys and high peaks, mountain
tops.

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When you go through this growth
of this company, if you could

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maybe talk about a few of the
major events that occurred that

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helped catapult Clean Harbors to
become what they are today.

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And what were the, you know,
highlights of some of these big

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events in your life?
Sure.

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Well, you know, initially when
we started out, we were doing

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emergency response work and a
lot of tank cleaning and other

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environmental service type work
here in New England.

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But Recra had just kicked in in
1980, you know, and this was a

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result of a lot of the Superfund
sites that were showing up.

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And if you remember back in the
day, customers would have their

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barrel recycler take their waste
away back in the 30s and 40s and

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the barrel recycle, the barrel
recyclers had more interest in

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the barrel than they did what
was in the waste, right.

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Years and years of kind of
handling waste that way resulted

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in a lot of locations around the
country really creating huge

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problems like Love Canal.
And so we hit the ground just

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the right time in 1980 because
customers were now starting to

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be held responsible for things
that happened years and years

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before.
And so they decided that they

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really needed to set up their
own environmental departments.

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They really needed to focus on
who is doing the work that they

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had doing.
And so, you know, being new and

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and not having any negative
history and kind of the new

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organization out there to offer
these kind of services, we

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really hit the market right and.
You, you guys were at the right

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time, at the right place, right?
Yeah, absolutely.

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And I would say that the RECO
regulations are really what

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drove our growth.
But more importantly, we

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followed what our customers
needed, right.

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And so early on, GE was my
biggest account and GE was also

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figuring out how to stop doing
business with a lot of these

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other players and like shrink
the number of suppliers.

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And they said, look at if you
want to continue to be one of

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our supplies, you got to grow
and you got to expand.

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And, you know, they had plants
in Ohio, they had plants in New

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York, they had plants in
Arizona.

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So we really grew as a result of
our customer demands forcing us

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to grow.
And it was just so exciting back

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then.
I mean, that's great to hear

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because you know, and and I
guess maybe it with a little

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trepidation, you're like, yeah,
I got this client.

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They want us to grow.
They say they're going to give

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us a bunch of business if I do
this.

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But then there's this
uncertainty, like, will they

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really give us that work if I do
do that right?

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Right, absolutely.
I think it was so much part of

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our acquisition strategy is like
how do we open up and get into

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those areas where they were so
that we could service their

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needs.
And that's what really drove the

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growth of the company and and
quite frankly one of the reasons

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why we went public back in 1987.
Yeah, I know I I, you know,

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it's, it's amazing, you know, to
to look and watch the journey of

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Clean Harbors and you know, as
an industry professional, I've

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worked with you guys over the
years and senior the

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acquisitions over the years and
go, wow, I can't believe they

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just did that or Oh my goodness,
they just acquired this for

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these guys are like really going
after the market.

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This is crazy.
And you know, I think too, when

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I look back, you guys also were
kind of in this road, this mode

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of, hey, we'll be that first
responder when the emergency

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happens.
And and then the book, which was

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great, you kind of detail kind
of that exhilaration, that

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adrenaline rush you guys got
when you were the first on site

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to win the work.
And but when you when you start

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to see some of the bigger events
that happened like 911 Katrina,

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some of those bigger events, you
guys were at the forefront and

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in there at the beginning.
I mean, talk about some of those

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events that also catapulted the
growth of the company.

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Yeah, absolutely.
So we're that's really in our

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DNA here.
Our culture is much, very much a

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response driven organization and
the employees here love, you

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know, running out the door, the
bell rings, we run out the door

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and we go after the events,
right.

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And we wanted, we want to do
good things for our customers

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and obviously for the
environment.

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And so we've really been
involved with so many events

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over the years.
And you mentioned Katrina and

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Reader, for example, the BP
spill was a major, major cleanup

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effort.
You know, 9/11.

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Prior to that, just a number of
major oil spills throughout

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North America that happened,
whether it was Valdez up in

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Alaska where we provided
resources there or anything that

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you can possibly imagine when
there's a large response needed.

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You know, our culture here and
our mindset is very much

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response driven.
It's really about who we are.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I love the name Clean

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Harbors.
I mean, it's like, and I'm AI

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used to be a regulator way back
in my early career.

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And in my I started out in the
Office of Water Management.

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And so we were, we were the
river rats basically because we

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were out on the river doing the
water quality studies and doing

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the fish kill evaluations and
things like that.

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You know, this is way back in
the early 90s, not as far back

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as you go, but I mean, still
nonetheless, it was back then.

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And and so I always really like
the water.

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When you, when I heard those
clean harbors, like these guys

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get it, man.
They're cleaning the water.

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Cleaning the harbors is what
they do.

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This is like innate in their
DNA.

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This is awesome.
Yeah, absolutely.

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It's a, it's a, it's a great
name.

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And our logo sort of has
survived a lot of marketing

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departments here.
You know, a lot of people look

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at that and, hey, you know,
maybe we should think something

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differently.
And it survived the many, many

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different ideas that people have
had.

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And I love the brand and
obviously I love the name.

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Oh, yeah.
No, I mean, exactly.

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I mean, and when you think about
it, when you're in this growth

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mode at the very beginning in
1980, you start, I mean, Fast

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forward seven years and now
you're going public in seven

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years.
That's like so fast.

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What was that like?
You know, I think it's a little

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bit like what's happening in the
market right now with, you know,

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AI, right?
It was hot, environmental was

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hot back then.
A lot of companies were going

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public and we were only a $70
million company when we went

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public.
We only initially were going to

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raise $15 million.
And at that point, I only had

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$15,000 of equity in the
business.

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And so it was like we really
needed to get some cash.

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We really need to kind of get
away from just having

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traditional bank borrowing.
And so we need to raise some

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money and we're going to raise
$15 million.

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And then the crash of 87
happened.

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And you remember in October of
87, we still decided, let's go

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let.
We've done all the work.

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We've got all the audit work
done.

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We've spent a ton of money.
So we subsequently raised $8

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million and that took us two
weeks to go out and do the road

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shows all over the country to
raise $8 million.

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And you see companies today
going public with $8 billion.

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Yeah, it's crazy, right?
Yeah.

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It's crazy.
So, but what was great about it

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is it it gave us liquidity, it
gave us cash.

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We did a secondary offering in
88 at $15 this year.

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So the stock rose and we raised
some more capital and then we

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were able to use our equity, our
publicly traded equity to buy

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other companies.
So we bought another public

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company in 1989 called Chem
Clear and that gave us plants in

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the Mid-Atlantic, in the
Midwest, even in the West Coast.

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And so again, part of our growth
strategy was trying to figure

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out how do we continue to grow
to meet our customers needs and

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00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:15,480
having that public equity really
helped us out.

228
00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:18,400
Yeah.
I mean, the when you guys were

229
00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:22,280
in that growth mode, looking at
like the minds that are like, I

230
00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:25,960
guess being in the war room
saying, OK, where can we grow?

231
00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:29,200
Who's got the best assets out in
the market that are suffering

232
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that we can go and fix?
And I love in the book when you

233
00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:38,000
talked about you've always had
this like innate kind of drive

234
00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,760
to turn one man's junk into
another man's treasure, right?

235
00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:44,920
Absolutely.
And so, you know, when you see

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00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,680
that and you have that mindset
and you start evaluating these

237
00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:50,160
these opportunities and these
other assets that are there,

238
00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,480
what you know, you got to be
licking your chops half the time

239
00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:55,360
when you're looking at these
these deals.

240
00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:58,760
Absolutely.
You know, and we have been

241
00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:02,200
really fortunate that the number
of the acquisitions we've made

242
00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:05,520
and we've done over 80 of them
now have really worked well for

243
00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:07,440
us.
And I think the secret to our

244
00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:12,360
success has really been to have
a single platform to run our

245
00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:14,320
business.
So when we acquire a business,

246
00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:18,640
we really put them on our
platform and from a quote to

247
00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:22,760
cash, you know, accounting, HR
systems, customer master file,

248
00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:26,200
all that kind of stuff is it's
so important because we end up,

249
00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,520
when we acquire companies, we
find it so fascinating to see

250
00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:32,080
how inefficient they are because
they have all these disparate

251
00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:35,440
systems that don't talk to each
other and they have people in

252
00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:39,240
between.
And, and so I think we've been

253
00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:43,080
able to take advantage of
companies that have been not

254
00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:46,880
doing well, maybe as a result of
recession like the early 90s or,

255
00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:49,800
you know, the 2008 Great
Recession.

256
00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:53,960
So Laidlaw going in bankruptcy
back in 2000.

257
00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:58,600
So we really, in many cases you
know that the company, but

258
00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:02,560
looking back, I mean they were
fantastic deals, fantastic

259
00:14:02,560 --> 00:14:06,760
deals.
Oh yeah, I mean, just when I

260
00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,040
mean, we're going to get off
talk about a topic a little bit

261
00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:10,400
here.
But I mean, I because I want to

262
00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:15,200
segue into the whole safety
clean situation was took the

263
00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:18,480
whole, I think industry by, you
know, storm and and by shock.

264
00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,200
And I mean, it was like, Oh my
gosh, they just got safety

265
00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:22,800
clean.
This was amazing.

266
00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:27,720
Yeah, it was amazing.
And you know, the first part of

267
00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:31,240
that business that we bought out
of bankruptcy was just some

268
00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:33,600
wonderful assets.
I mean over, over a billion

269
00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:37,480
dollars worth of assets we got.
And you know, and the key there

270
00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:41,320
was we had the ability to come
up with a financial assurance to

271
00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:44,600
meet what the EPA needed for
those plants to stay open.

272
00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:48,600
And but after three years, I
mean we were really starting to

273
00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:54,680
cook back in 2004, 2005 and then
subsequently in 2012 when we

274
00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,920
bought the remaining safety
clean the pots washer business,

275
00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:01,800
that became just a fantastic
business for us.

276
00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:05,040
And bringing those businesses
together, which was the original

277
00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:08,840
goal back in the day, bringing
them, bringing them together has

278
00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:12,640
been the best thing I think to
help both of those companies do

279
00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,240
so well.
You know, in your book there was

280
00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:17,240
like there was a conversation in
one of the chapters.

281
00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:19,680
I can't remember which chapter
it was now, but it was about the

282
00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:24,440
safety clean conversation and
you met with the the the former

283
00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:28,600
CEO of Laidlaw who who was
taking some position on you,

284
00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:33,880
right denotes to you.
And you kind of you kind of won

285
00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:36,280
the battle on that situation, if
you ask me.

286
00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:38,600
Yeah, we did.
We were close though.

287
00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:42,480
I mean, we had publicly traded
debt back then and they

288
00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:47,120
evidently had had gathered up
that public debt and they were

289
00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:49,120
maybe looking for us to trip and
fall.

290
00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:51,640
And it turned out to be the
other way around.

291
00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:54,720
And it, it was just a, a
amazing.

292
00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:58,080
And you know, what's so amazing
is the, the people that came

293
00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:03,320
over from, from that business.
I mean, yes, fantastic leaders.

294
00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:07,520
Many of them had already been
with that company for years and

295
00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:09,200
subsequently stayed with us for
years.

296
00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:14,680
So the longevity of a lot of our
leadership is a result of us not

297
00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:18,120
only acquiring businesses with
great people, but keeping them

298
00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:21,880
and and really making them part
of our company's future now.

299
00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:27,080
Yeah, now that is that's so spot
on this the recognition of good

300
00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:31,080
talent like that and and then
keeping them and bringing them

301
00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,520
in.
And, and because I've been

302
00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:36,880
through some mergers
acquisitions before and they

303
00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:39,760
promise you all, we're going to
let you guys, can I main

304
00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:43,800
maintain some leadership roles
and, you know, some, some

305
00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:46,920
control over, you know, managing
the business and then reality

306
00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:50,080
sets and you're like, you're not
doing any of that.

307
00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,960
That's very frustrating in, in
life, in business life.

308
00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,720
But it's great when you can
recognize the the, the value of

309
00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:59,680
that business and maintain that
and then continue to grow,

310
00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:02,480
invest and fix things, right?
Absolutely.

311
00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:07,520
Yeah, having that knowledge of
how those businesses ran and the

312
00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,560
relationships they had with
their customers was so important

313
00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:15,119
to hold on to those people and,
and, and we've been blessed, you

314
00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:19,440
know, to to have such a great
team here that stayed together

315
00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:21,560
and work together for a long,
long time.

316
00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:25,079
That safety clean business, I
mean they were used oil

317
00:17:25,079 --> 00:17:28,920
recyclers, parts washers and
solvent recyclers.

318
00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:33,840
And while they were there
picking up those products and

319
00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,560
servicing those products, they
were either one selling other

320
00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:40,560
products to them, you know,
parts, you know, equipment or

321
00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,880
PPE or whatever materials and
supplies.

322
00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:45,640
And then they were picking up
waste too.

323
00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:50,200
So they would, you know, have
multiple revenue streams as, as

324
00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:53,720
I kind of saw the business and I
was like, wow, you guys just

325
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:59,000
expanded your whole business
client list by like tenfold.

326
00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:03,240
With that, absolutely yeah, 300,
three, 100,000 customers, you

327
00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,640
know, many, many of them small
companies, you know, that were

328
00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:10,480
on a subscription that we went
out to every, you know, 12 weeks

329
00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:12,600
and provided that POTS washer
service.

330
00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:16,440
But as we continue to expand the
kind of services to meet those

331
00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:19,680
customers needs, right, we just
keep growing and growing and it

332
00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:21,840
was fantastic.
That's crazy.

333
00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,160
Just amazing.
You know, in your book Doing the

334
00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:28,160
Doing, you know it speaks to the
dedication and execution of, of

335
00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,080
the work.
And you know that you've done at

336
00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:31,600
Clean Harbors.
But, you know, beyond the

337
00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:34,520
literal meaning, what is the
core philosophy or principles

338
00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,840
you believe that has been the
most, I guess single greatest

339
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,000
driver of the of the success of
Clean Harbors?

340
00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:42,280
I think it's our focus on
people.

341
00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:45,560
I think knowing that our that
our workforces our number one

342
00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:49,920
asset and I think the
entrepreneurial spirit that we

343
00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:53,400
have here, the responsive
culture that I mentioned earlier

344
00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:56,120
is so important.
You know, the, but I think

345
00:18:56,120 --> 00:18:59,880
what's really been important is
people could grow in this

346
00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:03,520
company as we grow.
And so my, my original 4

347
00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:07,200
employees stayed here for 40
years and it was just an amazing

348
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:09,960
opportunity.
And many, many, many, many other

349
00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:13,880
people grow inside the company.
And when you're, when you're

350
00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:17,280
growing, you provide so many
opportunities for people.

351
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,920
And it's great that they don't
have to leave to go, you know,

352
00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:23,760
grow in their career.
They could move into a different

353
00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,640
part of the company.
We could educate them, we could

354
00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:30,520
get them, you know, degrees, we
could provide them training.

355
00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:34,080
And because we really felt that
the longer we can keep our

356
00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:38,840
employees, the safer we're going
to be #1 because, you know, we

357
00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:44,360
know that safety is most
impacted by young new employees.

358
00:19:44,360 --> 00:19:46,480
So that's really going to
improve our safety.

359
00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:50,240
But it's really going to provide
sort of that, you know, mature

360
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:53,080
workforce that really
understands who we are and and

361
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,920
what kind of services we offer.
So that was really, really

362
00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,000
important.
Yeah, that's great.

363
00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,960
I mean, that continuity you're
able to continue to manage and

364
00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,680
grow with, you know, employees
Plus, I mean, it's, you have to

365
00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:07,280
admit it's, it's probably a big
cost savings too at the end of

366
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,320
the day, you know?
Oh my God.

367
00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:13,320
Yeah, onboarding a new employees
and the HR and I mean Oh my

368
00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:16,360
goodness, today is it's way
bigger than it ever was when you

369
00:20:16,360 --> 00:20:20,560
started in 1980, I'm sure.
Absolutely it must.

370
00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:23,800
It must cost, I'd be guessing
because I don't, I don't know

371
00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:26,520
the exact number, but it's
probably $15,000 to bring an

372
00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,680
employee on now with all the
training and you know, medical

373
00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,120
and all the things.
Yeah, absolutely.

374
00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:35,040
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, well, you know it.

375
00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:39,880
You discuss in the book Trials
and Tribulations and can you

376
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:43,720
share some important or how
important it was for you to have

377
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:48,520
a mentor or mentors that were
helping you throughout the tough

378
00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:50,720
times when you were growing the
business?

379
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:55,600
I really liked in the book how
you kind of were able to reach

380
00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:57,960
out and find a few of those
those gentlemen that really

381
00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:02,240
helped you in certain ways to
help you educate yourself more

382
00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:04,720
or or just understand the
business better.

383
00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:07,400
I mean, talk about that, if you
could, about how important it

384
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:09,000
was for you.
Sure.

385
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,200
Yeah.
And I think before we went

386
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:15,320
public, I had I'd gone back to
Northeast and to get my MBA and

387
00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:18,920
I met a professor there who
really helped me a lot going

388
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:21,920
through school while I was still
running the company and still

389
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:25,840
raising four children.
It was a tough time, right to

390
00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,200
all those things.
And he was a fantastic man.

391
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,680
And I asked him to join our
board and he became our our

392
00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:34,920
first board member.
He became our lead director.

393
00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:37,600
And subsequently for 30 years,
he was my lead director.

394
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,160
Wow.
My lawyer who actually helped

395
00:21:40,360 --> 00:21:44,280
found the company, you know, who
incorporated the company was our

396
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:46,880
general counsel for 40 plus
years.

397
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:52,120
And and so those, those early
folks were so critical to me

398
00:21:52,120 --> 00:21:54,360
personally and also to the
company's success.

399
00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:58,840
But also along the way, whether
it be bringing board members in

400
00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:02,560
who could help with a certain
area of expertise that maybe we

401
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,680
were struggling with at the
time, whether it be regulatory

402
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,400
or might have been finance or it
might have been, you know,

403
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,800
growth, whatever the issue is, I
think that was so critical for

404
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:13,920
us.
But then bringing in leaders,

405
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:17,080
you know, bringing in people.
So when when we got to $100

406
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:19,360
million, it was very much
hitting the wall.

407
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:23,920
And none of us in the company at
that time had ever worked for

408
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:27,600
$100 million company.
And so bringing people in that,

409
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,680
you know, had the experience,
you know, people like Clyde

410
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,760
Keaton, as I mentioned, who came
over from GE, for example, and

411
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:39,920
it was really important to bring
people in from outside the

412
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:43,640
company as much as it was to
help people inside the company

413
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:45,960
grow.
So you, you know, what I

414
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:47,680
realized is that you really
needed both.

415
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,560
You just can't have it all being
an internally growth orientated

416
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,440
company, right?
You've got to get people who

417
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:58,120
have expertise and leadership
skills to come in as you

418
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:00,120
continue to see the company
grow.

419
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:04,600
And obviously the first year in
business we did $600,000.

420
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,320
This past year we did $6
billion.

421
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,880
You need different people.
You need a lot of people.

422
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:12,880
Yeah.
And a lot of people, yeah.

423
00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:16,040
Yeah, hello ET Nation.
I want to thank you for

424
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,040
listening to the podcast.
If you're enjoying the

425
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:20,920
interviews we bring you,
consider supporting the program

426
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,920
by visiting my website at
seankgrady.com and buy me a cup

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00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,040
of coffee.
Proceeds will go towards helping

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00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,400
me continue producing timely
content and offset production

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costs.
I'd also like to take a moment

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00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,880
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containers, fluid transfer pumps
and filtration items.

454
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,320
The next time you are presented
with an environmental challenge,

455
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,800
call E Tank to come up with the
solution for your problem.

456
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,080
I want to thank one of our
sponsors, Wastelink.

457
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,880
Wastelink is the all in one
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458
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,640
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459
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generators, service providers,
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460
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461
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everything from waste profiling

462
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and routing to inventory
management and billing, giving

463
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you the tools you need to
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464
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465
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466
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efficiency, Wastelink has you
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467
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,000
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468
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business, visit wastelink.com to

469
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,120
schedule a demo today.
No, that's great.

470
00:25:53,120 --> 00:25:57,360
I mean, and I think as you know,
as ACEO as you in your position,

471
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:01,640
it may at times may have been a
struggle or challenge to realize

472
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,560
I need to let go of the reins in
a certain area of this business

473
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:10,320
because I can't do everything or
that's really not my best

474
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,480
highest value used, but it's
important.

475
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:14,600
But I just that's not my best
skill.

476
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,880
What was that like?
You know, making those decisions

477
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:22,520
to bring in the right people?
It was the most important thing

478
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:26,160
certainly for me because I wore
all the hats early on as any

479
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,240
entrepreneur does who owns the
business.

480
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:32,000
But I really felt like, you
know, I really focused on

481
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,240
technology.
I really love technology and I

482
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:38,800
think I really could help the
business and run better and, and

483
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:40,280
more efficiently with
technology.

484
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:44,240
And I also felt it was a key
differentiator as it related to

485
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,320
our acquisition.
So building out software and

486
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,720
building out platforms has been
something that has really been

487
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:55,000
my focus and realizing that
maybe Eric Gerstenberg is a

488
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,920
better engineer than me and he
does a better job of running our

489
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,600
plants.
So how do we continue to develop

490
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:04,320
Eric to become the Chief
Operating Officer and now the Co

491
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:07,520
CEO, right.
So we definitely bring people in

492
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,480
and realize whether they're in
transportation, they're in

493
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:14,040
safety or they're in finance,
bringing those people in and,

494
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,800
and complimenting your skills to
allow you do the things that you

495
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:21,600
really, really are good at.
And that was tough to let go

496
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:25,080
when you had to start giving up
all the power, so to speak,

497
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,440
right?
But I think as an entrepreneur,

498
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,280
you know, that's one of the
things I learned is that you've

499
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:32,720
got to surround yourself with
people that are better than you,

500
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,280
especially in the areas that
might be your weak spot.

501
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:38,360
Yeah.
Now that makes total sense.

502
00:27:38,360 --> 00:27:41,320
I mean, and then I guess that's
just one of those Vince in the

503
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:43,840
in the journey.
You can just go, I have to do

504
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:47,360
this or we're not going to be
successful as or as successful,

505
00:27:47,360 --> 00:27:49,200
right?
And, and I think you do it to

506
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,000
take one for the team almost
right.

507
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,560
Absolutely, yeah.
You know, when you we talked

508
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,400
about, you know, building the
team and, and acquisitions and,

509
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,720
and, you know, as you guys were
growing and, and it your growth

510
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,320
has been heavily linked to the
strategic acquisitions like

511
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,360
safety, clean, hydrochem, PSC,
those types, you know.

512
00:28:07,360 --> 00:28:11,120
But how did you and your team
evaluate the unique, I guess the

513
00:28:11,120 --> 00:28:14,560
financial or the operational or
the regulatory risk associated

514
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:16,640
with integrating these massive
companies?

515
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,360
And then what was your personal
like risk threshold that you'd

516
00:28:20,360 --> 00:28:23,040
be like, OK, these are some high
stakes decisions.

517
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:27,200
I yeah, I'm going to go or not
going to do, you know, passing

518
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:30,320
up, you know, tell me maybe walk
a little bit through that and

519
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,240
how that happened or what you
guys did evaluate.

520
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,960
You know, I think early on we
had worked with a couple of

521
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:40,000
consulting firms and Mackenzie
was one of them that that helped

522
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,800
us integrate some of the larger
acquisitions we made.

523
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,480
But over the years we really
developed a great playbook on

524
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:51,600
both doing pre acquisition as
well as post acquisition, right.

525
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:56,160
So how do we evaluate and do all
our due diligence and how do we

526
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,800
integrate the businesses after
we've made a decision to go

527
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,760
forward with it.
And I think over the years,

528
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,760
Brian Weber, who now heads up
our M and A group is really

529
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,080
honed that playbook and we've
set up an organization, an

530
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,080
internal organization to do
that.

531
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,240
And, and so I think we're
really, really good at it.

532
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,680
And I think I actually brought
on one of the key McKenzie

533
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,520
partners who's been on our board
now for 10 years and has done an

534
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,800
awesome job for us after he
retired from McKenzie.

535
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:27,480
And it is something that we
really do well.

536
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:31,320
And I don't know if anybody
doesn't any better from people

537
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,120
who've told me.
And so I think that playbook has

538
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,120
been, you know, sort of a
critical thing.

539
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:40,680
I think the decision about
finally making that ultimate,

540
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,520
you know, go or no go decision.
We really evolved the board.

541
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:48,080
You know, we really got their
feedback and we really

542
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:52,880
collaborated with them.
And we in 40 plus years of being

543
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:57,480
chairman of the board, we have
never had a, a decision by the

544
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,520
board that wasn't unanimous.
And so look at if we're going to

545
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:04,480
make a vote and someone's not
feeling comfortable about it,

546
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,560
well, we're going to continue to
work on, you know, what are the

547
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,080
issues here?
How do we solve your, you know,

548
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,880
your uncomfortableness with
something that maybe we're

549
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,120
contemplating here.
So I think realizing that you

550
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,960
need to have the board support,
you need to have your leadership

551
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,280
team support, but ultimately
when you do make that final

552
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,760
decision, it still could be gut
wrenching, right?

553
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:26,440
Sure.
I mean, I mean, especially when

554
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:28,920
you know maybe potentially
you're taking on environmental

555
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:30,760
liabilities for some of the
assets.

556
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:34,080
And it's like did I do I have
enough due diligence to to

557
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:36,800
determine the real amount that I
think I'm going to have to take

558
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,280
on, right.
And that's got to be tough.

559
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:42,520
It certainly is.
And I the, the thing that I

560
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:44,640
always looked at is that's the
business we're in.

561
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:47,080
And so if we're acquiring a
business and all of a sudden

562
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,360
some environmental liability
pops up, whether it's a off site

563
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,840
Superfund issue or maybe they're
they have some problems on one

564
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:55,240
of their sites that we're
picking up.

565
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,280
That's our business.
We we felt really comfortable

566
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:00,120
about taking on those kind of
risks.

567
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,680
You know, some of the other
risks become even greater of a

568
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,000
challenge for us obviously that
are out of our control.

569
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:10,080
But I think, you know, we've
done a good job here and we've

570
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,240
had a good track record.
I think so too.

571
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,600
I think so too.
I mean, you know, when you talk

572
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:19,520
about being in this business
and, and the importance of

573
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:23,120
building a solid team around
you, you know, how important was

574
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,320
that to build and you know, for
the scaling of your business?

575
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,680
I mean, I think we've touched on
in the previous conversations

576
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,280
that that we just recently had,
but you know, what specific

577
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:35,720
strategies did you employ to
foster say like employee loyalty

578
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:39,880
and Co cohesive culture over the
four decades it's really helped

579
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,720
you grow this business?
Well, I think again, one of the

580
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,080
nice things about being a public
company is you've been able to

581
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:51,520
share opportunities of growth
and financial wealth and, and

582
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:53,800
growth with, with a lot of your
employees, right?

583
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:57,480
They could, they could get stock
options, they could buy some of

584
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,800
the shares, they could be given
performance based share

585
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,000
programs.
And so I'm there's nothing that

586
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:08,520
makes me more happy to see some
of our leadership here really

587
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,360
doing well for themselves
because the stock is appreciated

588
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,680
and they hung in there with us.
They might not have been the

589
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:19,120
highest paid, but they got stock
and they got performance based

590
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:23,240
awards and that.
So going public and having that,

591
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:27,040
you know, sort of liquidity for
them, that was an important part

592
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:31,600
of of keeping people here.
We did lose a number of people

593
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:35,520
over the years as you would any
business after 45 years, right.

594
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:41,280
I'm proud to say that I think my
last count is we've had 20

595
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:43,800
people leave to become CE OS of
other companies.

596
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:48,680
Yes, I thought that was amazing
stat actually that you, you

597
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:52,440
mentioned that when we met a
couple months back at the EI

598
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:54,880
Digest, a conference in San
Diego.

599
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:57,720
I thought wow, that is really
impressive.

600
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:00,560
You know, you get some quality
people that work for you that

601
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,520
now started their own businesses
or went to go run other

602
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:05,120
businesses.
Exactly.

603
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,840
Yeah, and you hate to see them
leave in many, many examples,

604
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:12,760
but in some cases they've come
back after we've maybe bought

605
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,600
their business, after we
acquired them, that they went

606
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:17,720
off.
Yeah.

607
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,800
But that that Clean Harbors
alumni is strong out there.

608
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:25,760
And I always proud of myself in
the fact that we can.

609
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:29,360
You were an important employee
while you're here.

610
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:32,040
When you leave and go off, we
want to maintain that

611
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:35,360
relationship and be able to go
out and have a beer together

612
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:36,440
still.
Right And.

613
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:39,480
So.
I think that relationship, you

614
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:43,080
know, this is a very small
community, people in our

615
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,000
industry, and it's nice to
maintain those relationships.

616
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,440
Well, you know, now they can
become partners with you because

617
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:53,200
you know, and invariably, you
know, all these companies, they

618
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,560
might be able to do most of the
things, but they can't do

619
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:57,400
everything.
So everybody needs partners.

620
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,520
Everybody needs partners.
We need partners today and

621
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:02,040
absolutely.
Yeah.

622
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,160
Well, you know, you touched a
little bit on technology and

623
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,880
I'm, I'm a little bit of a
technology geek myself in the

624
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:12,560
sense that he's back when I was
running a consulting business

625
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:14,960
for waste management and selling
services.

626
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:18,320
And I used you guys, as you
know, vendors to deliver the

627
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,080
services for our clients.
We had to develop our own

628
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:25,960
software too, and we released
our software back in 2012 and

629
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,080
then it kind of grew.
And then we're like, we got to

630
00:34:28,159 --> 00:34:30,120
modernize this thing.
We got to make it better.

631
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,440
In 2018, we started to redevelop
and make it a cloud solution.

632
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:36,679
And, you know, everybody who was
wanting to be a differentiator

633
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,560
realized the data, you know, was
the big thing.

634
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:44,320
And I always said he who holds
the data holds the work.

635
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,639
That's so true.
I mean, right and you know, you

636
00:34:48,639 --> 00:34:51,600
can get into that and, and maybe
talk a little bit about your

637
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:55,000
interest in, you know, you
created the wind system there at

638
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,520
at Clean Harbors and how that
really built out to just build

639
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:00,600
your whole platform.
Absolutely.

640
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:07,600
So when today is over 750
applications and it basically is

641
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:09,760
the supporting software for our
entire business.

642
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:13,920
We have a, a CRM and we also
have all of our financials in

643
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:18,280
Oracle, you know, with HR and
finance, GL, all that kind of

644
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:20,800
stuff.
But when is everything around

645
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,040
waste tracking, invoicing,
quoting, contract management,

646
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:28,000
you name it.
And, and I think your point is

647
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,280
we have the data.
We have a massive amount of

648
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:35,080
data, not only data that we've
generated ourselves, but also

649
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:38,640
through our, the acquisitions
we've made, we've kept that data

650
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:40,560
and we have an on Prem data
center.

651
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,320
And one of the things that we're
really doing is mining gold out

652
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,400
of that data.
Now we're building Co pilots,

653
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:51,720
we're building agents, we're
building assistance, we're using

654
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:56,040
the classic machine learning.
We're also using generative AI.

655
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:59,960
We're actually kind of creating
your own clean harbors GPT to

656
00:35:59,960 --> 00:36:03,920
talk to that data.
And so I wish I was 40 years

657
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:08,840
younger because I, I, I look at
where the, where the technology

658
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:12,800
is going and I say, this is so
much fun and this is going to be

659
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:16,760
life changing for companies and
for people.

660
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:21,280
And, and that's why I stayed on
as a, as a technology officer

661
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:25,320
here, you know, while I stepped
down, I just find it to be

662
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:29,600
amazing technology that we can
continue to employ here and do a

663
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:31,840
better job of servicing our
customers.

664
00:36:32,240 --> 00:36:35,360
Well, and that's, that's a
great, you know, kind of a, a

665
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:38,600
segue from the, the big daily
day role and into, you know,

666
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,040
kind of like a passion role, a
passion play role, right.

667
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:43,560
Absolutely.
That's just kind of gets you

668
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:45,480
still something to stay
connected.

669
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:48,920
You're still involved with the
business, but maybe not so at

670
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:53,000
the top all the time and and and
now you still have a big impact.

671
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:56,440
I think it's still an amazing
segue there for into the

672
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:58,320
technologies.
I'm because technology is

673
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,240
changing.
I mean E manifest is still not

674
00:37:01,240 --> 00:37:03,480
been cracked.
I mean, as effectively as most

675
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:07,400
as EPA would love to see it and
most service providers are still

676
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,040
struggling to, you know, have a
good communication back and

677
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,080
forth with that.
And I think the whole, you know,

678
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:16,320
transportation logistics side of
that whole equation is the big,

679
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,480
you know, kind of let down
because nobody has really

680
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,440
figured out what's the most
efficient way of just doing

681
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:25,640
everything electronically.
And it's still a challenge.

682
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:29,080
And is it's, I think they're
well meaning, but I still feel

683
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,920
like it's going to struggle to
really be what they envision it

684
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:34,960
to be.
Yeah, absolutely.

685
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:38,200
I think I actually think
industry is probably a little

686
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:42,800
ahead of EPA in that regard.
And you know, the investment

687
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,560
that the government needs to
make in their platforms is not

688
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:47,400
kept up.
And you know, if we want to

689
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:51,440
build API is directly with our
EPA friends, you know it, it

690
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:53,960
takes a lot of work to get those
kind of things done.

691
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,360
They don't have Microsoft
probably in the background

692
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:00,880
helping them design the
interfaces and and all the APIs

693
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,440
that you need to integrate with
every company who needs to do it

694
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:07,520
and create standards for Clean
Harbors and every other service

695
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:09,120
provider.
Exactly.

696
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:10,920
Yeah, exactly.
So true.

697
00:38:11,240 --> 00:38:12,280
Yeah.
No, that's great.

698
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:15,960
I mean, you know, another,
another differentiator or I

699
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:20,280
think something that's been on
the horizon that everybody in

700
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,880
industries kind of, you know,
enamored by, which is P Foss,

701
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:25,480
right?
I mean, think about, I mean,

702
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:29,880
this is like the hottest topic.
It's the new frontier of the

703
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:33,240
environmental revolution, so to
speak, that we, I mean, climate

704
00:38:33,240 --> 00:38:36,120
change is right there too, but
this is the biggest thing that's

705
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:37,680
hottest that's in the industry.
Now.

706
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,720
How's Clean Harbors addressing
the regulatory impacts

707
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,680
industry's facing?
And how do you think that you

708
00:38:44,720 --> 00:38:47,200
know what, how big's the
potential market for this for

709
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:49,360
service providers like Clean
Harbors?

710
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:53,480
You know, from what I can see
it's it's going to be a big

711
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:57,160
market and I'm not sure whether
it would be bigger than the PCB

712
00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:01,840
market that was back in the 70s
if you remember, but very

713
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,800
similar.
And it's sort of a different

714
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,920
aspect to clean up, right,
Whether it's cleaning up water

715
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:11,400
on site and removing P fast from
the liquid phase or it's

716
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:15,880
removing the solid materials and
bringing it to A an incinerator

717
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:19,320
like one of our, you know,
hazardous waste incinerators to

718
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:23,280
destroy the P Foss.
I think we and I think the

719
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:27,160
industry is really well
positioned to serve EPA and

720
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:30,600
serve the public.
And we got to getting these kind

721
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:34,920
of contaminated sites cleaned up
and removed and and remediated.

722
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:37,800
So I think it's a wonderful
opportunity and I think the

723
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:42,200
technology is available.
We've proven with DOE that we've

724
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:48,040
got the technology to destroy
the PFAS in our plants and we

725
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,600
hope that the continued
regulatory framework will be

726
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:55,560
created to to really turn that
that whole cleanup effort on.

727
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:57,400
Yeah, Yeah.
No, I think so.

728
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:02,440
I think EPA still trying to
evaluate some of the new limits

729
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:06,320
that they recently set last year
and now the new administration's

730
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,240
kind of pulling back a little
bit saying we're going to

731
00:40:08,240 --> 00:40:11,040
reassess and I saw there's
certainly.

732
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:15,240
Uncertainty on where things are
going, you know, right now it

733
00:40:15,240 --> 00:40:18,960
seems like, but a lot of people
are very cautious and concerned.

734
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:23,280
And I think the framework of
where PFOS sits in CERCLA is

735
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:25,400
kind of one of the biggest
challenges a lot of people are

736
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:29,800
struggling with is just because
wow, this could be anybody could

737
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:33,480
be pulled into a CERCLA
situation when they really don't

738
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:37,600
have responsibility for it.
And and so I think if it went to

739
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,960
RECRA or created its own P Foss
regulation, I think that would

740
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,960
be the best situation.
And moving forward, I don't know

741
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:47,480
where EPA is going with it yet,
but I think that some of the

742
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:50,880
topics we are talking about on
the podcast on a regular basis.

743
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:53,040
Sure.
And I think that I think it's

744
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:56,560
needed, it really does.
That framework is needed and I'm

745
00:40:56,560 --> 00:41:00,120
hoping that, you know, the
regulatory agencies will

746
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,360
continue to create that
framework that'll make it so

747
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:06,080
that everybody knows what the
playing field is going to look

748
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:07,640
like.
Yeah, I mean, like, you know,

749
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:10,840
landfills who accept waste, they
didn't generate the waste.

750
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:12,920
They're just storing it.
And now all of a sudden they

751
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:16,160
potentially could be Superfund
sites because, you know, it's

752
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:20,680
it, I mean, it's where does the
compliance, you know, really

753
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:22,600
land?
And I think that's the ambiguity

754
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:24,800
that's out there right now.
It still needs a lot of clarity.

755
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,040
Yes, they agree.
Well, let's talk about

756
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:31,840
Undercover Boss because I think
that's a great story and I think

757
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:34,040
you went through a really
interesting experience there.

758
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:35,920
And maybe you could talk a
little bit about that

759
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:39,360
experience.
But you know, you know, what was

760
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:43,240
the most surprising impact or
most surprising or impactful

761
00:41:43,240 --> 00:41:46,040
lesson you learn from the
day-to-day realities of your

762
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:49,120
frontline employees and, and
maybe how did you take that

763
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:52,960
information and make subsequent
decisions at your executive

764
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:55,840
level?
It was a great experience and

765
00:41:56,760 --> 00:42:00,160
you know, as much as I thought I
knew our employees because I, I

766
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:04,120
spent a lot of time in the field
and traveled all all over to our

767
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:08,320
plants and, and knew many, many
employees over the years.

768
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,600
When I got out and started
traveling with some of the

769
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:15,520
drivers or working with some of
the field supervisors on some of

770
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:17,800
the projects they're working on,
it was eye opening.

771
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:22,600
It was, it was surprising to
hear maybe how they thought

772
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:26,400
about corporate, how they
thought about leadership, what

773
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:32,360
their issues were, you know, and
it was, and I didn't believe any

774
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:34,840
of them recognized me.
So I, and I thought I did a

775
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:38,160
pretty good job of disguising
myself there to, to that.

776
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:43,160
And, you know, so I, I think,
you know, our people work

777
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:46,560
incredibly hard.
And in one event, I was inside a

778
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,200
tank with a woman who did that
every day.

779
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:53,880
And it was in Chicago and it was
extremely hot and, and she was

780
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:59,080
cleaning rail cars out as part
of her job and really

781
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:02,800
appreciating the facilities that
she had to work in and maybe the

782
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,920
lack of a locker room for a
female employee nearby.

783
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:09,800
And, you know, you started
really seeing first hand things

784
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:12,520
that our employees were
challenged with, whether they

785
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:14,800
were out in the field or they're
actually working in one of our

786
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,840
plants.
And, you know, driving with a

787
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:19,760
truck driver there isn't
anything better than driving

788
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:21,360
with a driver.
Boy, you're going to hear

789
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:24,760
everything that you probably
don't want to hear, but it was a

790
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:28,520
great experience to handle to
hear feedback directly from one

791
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:30,840
of our drivers driving up and
down the highway here.

792
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:35,080
I'm sure there was some of
moments that probably weren't

793
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:39,280
caught on tape that you got to
hear some, you know, unvarnished

794
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:43,400
direct conversations, and I'm
sure that was very impactful for

795
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:47,160
you as well.
It was and, and also to see how

796
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:51,880
maybe supervisors interacted
with our employees too, you

797
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:54,520
know, how did, were they treated
with respect?

798
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:58,040
You know, where they supported,
you know, because I was just

799
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:01,680
sitting on this on the sideline
might be at the dock and, you

800
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:04,040
know, wondering, you know, where
is the supervisor here?

801
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:06,600
Oh, he left early today.
He always leaves early.

802
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:09,680
And, you know, hearing little
tidbits and things like that was

803
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:14,000
sort of interesting, you know,
but it was, you know, it had a

804
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:17,440
little bit of downside to it.
And that was, is that people

805
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:20,480
realize how approachable I was
in there.

806
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:25,400
And I started getting reached
out by a lot of employees via

807
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:29,120
phone and e-mail after the
episode aired.

808
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:32,760
And, and even today,
unfortunately, people want to

809
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:35,800
skip the chain of command and
they want to reach out to Alan.

810
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:39,240
And hey, I remember you on
Undercover Boss and you helped

811
00:44:39,240 --> 00:44:41,800
out this person and wondering if
you could help me out.

812
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:44,320
And so fun.
Yeah, I know.

813
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:46,840
Well, I mean, you know, it's,
it's good to be the, the

814
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:48,920
people's CEO.
Right.

815
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:52,360
Absolutely.
I mean, and I think, you know,

816
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:56,800
some of the changes you made,
were there anything, you know,

817
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,200
like you said, the women's
bathrooms did you, you know,

818
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:02,120
implement a lot of these like
things like we have to fix this.

819
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:05,920
We can't just let them not have
you know, the the utilities they

820
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:08,040
need.
And you know what?

821
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:10,280
We'll talk a little bit if you
could do some of the things you

822
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:12,520
implemented as as a result of
Undercover Boss.

823
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:16,080
Yeah, I think we, we came back
and really talked a lot about

824
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:18,360
the feedback.
I used it and by the way, they,

825
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:22,360
they reached out to me a couple
years before and wanted us to to

826
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:24,640
do it.
And it just didn't have the time

827
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:28,880
at the, at that, at when they
asked, but we ultimately agreed

828
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:33,000
to, and we, we circle back
together as a team and sort of

829
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:35,440
brought all the feedback
together and said, you know,

830
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:37,400
hey, these are some of the
things that we should be

831
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:40,560
thinking about here.
And I think putting out an

832
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:43,000
employee survey and trying to
get more feedback.

833
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:47,040
So now we have a regular broad
employee survey that kind of get

834
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:51,200
employees feedback.
And we've, we set up, you know,

835
00:45:51,240 --> 00:45:54,800
some employee resource groups.
You know, we have 7 employee

836
00:45:54,800 --> 00:46:00,200
resource groups now set up to,
you know, have the, you know,

837
00:46:00,240 --> 00:46:03,640
employees who want to do it
themselves, but they want the

838
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:05,560
company to support them at the
same time.

839
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:09,000
So I think there was some really
good things that came back from

840
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:12,600
that.
And I think we all had a, an

841
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:16,160
appreciation of how hard our
team members work.

842
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:20,240
But I think having that direct
interaction with them and

843
00:46:20,240 --> 00:46:23,360
bringing that message back to
the executive team, I think was

844
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:24,960
helpful.
That's great.

845
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:27,120
That's great.
I mean, seeing you go on that,

846
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:30,480
would you recommend other CE OS
of large service organizations

847
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:32,320
to participate in something
similar to this?

848
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:34,600
I got to imagine it's very
beneficial.

849
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:36,320
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.

850
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:40,200
And I've watched a lot of those
other episodes, you know, and I

851
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:46,160
find, you know, watching them is
is brings back good memories

852
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:47,760
also.
But it also kind of says, you

853
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:51,720
know what, this this guy is
really having an opportunity to

854
00:46:51,720 --> 00:46:55,640
the otherwise wouldn't have to
be able to kind of be out there

855
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:58,600
and and do what he's doing
without them saying, oh, that's

856
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:01,520
the boss I got to I got to hide
what's really going on here.

857
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:02,960
Yeah.
I can't be, you know?

858
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:05,840
Yeah, I can't.
I got to be protecting myself

859
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:08,480
here, not giving the real story.
Yeah, that's true.

860
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:12,720
Yeah, you know, when I was
reading the book, it was great

861
00:47:12,720 --> 00:47:15,640
book, by the way.
I really loved how you prefaced

862
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:20,240
a lot of the chapters with some
major events or regulatory, you

863
00:47:20,240 --> 00:47:22,920
know, dynamic that's just
catapulted your, your

864
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:27,640
organization or that was really
helpful to see your journey of

865
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:30,880
how things were tied to each
other and how the company grew.

866
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:32,400
I I really appreciate that in
the book.

867
00:47:32,720 --> 00:47:35,640
But one of the chapters I want
to touch on is, is chapter 30

868
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:38,240
and it's your leadership book.
I mean, it's your leadership

869
00:47:38,240 --> 00:47:42,280
chapter in the book and there
was a couple things there that I

870
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:44,120
thought was great.
So you reflect on some of the

871
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:49,000
qualities and skills and make a
good CEO and some of the ones

872
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:51,880
that you possess to help.
Grow your company and I wanted

873
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:53,040
to.
Read a few of these and just get

874
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:54,520
your take on them.
OK.

875
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:59,360
So one of them was there's no
shortcut to excellence.

876
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:04,440
Another one was, I believe
another great quality is that

877
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:07,400
that makes a good leader is
curiosity.

878
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:12,080
And another last one, it's
another one here that I thought

879
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:16,040
is great is I believe one of the
secrets of success to be able to

880
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:21,120
grasp the complications, the
implications, the subtleties of

881
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:25,120
your business, to be able to
take it back, break it down to

882
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:29,320
its most simplest things.
And like this is how you know

883
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:31,720
you do it.
And I think if you could talk a

884
00:48:31,720 --> 00:48:34,200
little about those three thought
those three items, if you could,

885
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:37,240
that would be interesting.
Yeah.

886
00:48:37,240 --> 00:48:42,200
Well, I'm a business process guy
and I have always kind of felt

887
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:46,280
back when we started initiating
business process re engineering

888
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:50,120
probably in the middle 90s, that
understanding sort of your

889
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:53,800
business and all the different
processes that go into it and

890
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:57,920
understanding how to break down
all the barriers that that get

891
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:00,240
in the way of a business
performing better.

892
00:49:00,240 --> 00:49:03,840
And so I, you know, I think I'm
one of those guys that really

893
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:07,920
drives efficiencies.
Technology is an enabler of

894
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:09,480
that.
But more importantly, I think

895
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:12,680
getting the right people in the
room and trying to understand

896
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:17,480
the business process and trying
to, like I say, simplify the

897
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:21,760
problem and break it down into
manageable pieces so that you

898
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:25,720
can attack it and, and make make
an improvement in that business.

899
00:49:25,720 --> 00:49:30,400
So I think that was really, I
think an important skill that I

900
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:34,200
have and one that I think is
used throughout the business

901
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:37,040
even today.
You know, we released a big

902
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:41,160
software package last night and
I'm I walked down and challenged

903
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:44,920
the checked in on the team
that's doing a lot of the phone

904
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:48,120
calls for people calling in on
the hotline and how's it going?

905
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:53,280
And everybody's like high 5 and
excited and, and I know that

906
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:56,760
we're impacting thousands of
people with that release that we

907
00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:59,400
did last night.
And so I know that those are the

908
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:02,600
kind of things that really
excite me about making the

909
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:06,040
business run more efficiently
and breaking it down into small

910
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:08,560
bites so you can eat it.
I love that and that that kind

911
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:10,760
of leads into, I mean, that's
kind of following up and you're,

912
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:14,400
you know, being curious and, and
understanding the complexity of

913
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:16,200
things.
But the other one that I really

914
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:18,200
thought was there's no shortcut
to excellence.

915
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:22,120
I mean, the bottom line is you
have to put the time in to be

916
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:24,280
good at what you're doing.
Yeah.

917
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:27,240
And I think Dan McCarthy, as I
mentioned as my lead director,

918
00:50:27,240 --> 00:50:30,280
my force lead director, I mean,
I, I learned a lot from him.

919
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:35,800
And one of the things is there's
no shortcuts and what whatever

920
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:40,640
it is, there isn't shortcuts to
be taken because in the long run

921
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:42,080
those are going to come back and
bite you.

922
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:50,280
And I think our focus on safety
and empowering any employee to

923
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:54,880
shut a job down and anytime if
they feel like it's an unsafe

924
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:58,120
condition, that to me is
excellence.

925
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:01,840
And I think, you know, it's
like, how do we measure the near

926
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:04,840
misses?
How do we measure confined space

927
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:08,440
entry safety permits?
How do we measure things to make

928
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:11,920
sure that every employee goes
home every night the same they

929
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:16,720
came in, You know, so that
safety is such a critical part

930
00:51:16,720 --> 00:51:20,880
of our company and not cutting
quarters is so important for

931
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:23,760
that.
Well, and just helping people

932
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:27,640
understand that they actually do
have the power in their own

933
00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:31,760
hands to do a stop work, right,
even at the entry level, like if

934
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:36,160
it's unsafe, I'll stop work.
We will stop and listen, right?

935
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:38,000
You will stop and, you know,
figure it out.

936
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:41,080
I mean, I think empowering
employees is that's a real

937
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:43,120
important piece there.
I'm glad you mentioned that.

938
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:45,280
That's, that's really good.
Yeah, I, I thought that was

939
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:47,960
really great that that's that
chapter on leadership and and

940
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:50,040
some of the skills and there was
a few other ones in the book.

941
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:51,680
I'm not going to go through them
all because I want people to

942
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:53,320
read this book.
It's a fantastic read.

943
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:58,640
Another chapter I was inspired
by was your chapter on giving

944
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:00,760
back.
And, you know, if you could

945
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:03,840
share with us why it's so
important to help others and why

946
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:07,640
you set up the Mckim Family
Charitable Foundation to help

947
00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:10,480
others, you know, give a little
bit of background on why you did

948
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:12,160
that and why it's so important
to you.

949
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:16,520
I think first I've been blessed
beyond, you know, my wildest

950
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:20,400
dreams financially and and and
personally with four beautiful

951
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:24,200
children and 11 grandchildren.
I, I, every day, I count my

952
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:28,360
blessings and, but I also
realized that not everybody is

953
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:32,480
as fortunate as me.
And early on I got involved with

954
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:36,200
different organizations that,
you know, had needs and I wanted

955
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:40,080
to be helpful, whether it be in
a small way or a large way to,

956
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:43,040
to support them.
I also wanted to give back to my

957
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:45,920
alma mater.
I wanted to give back to Mass

958
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:51,440
Maritime for their wonderful
programs there that creates so

959
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:53,320
many wonderful employees of
ours.

960
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:55,480
You know, hundreds and hundreds
employees came out of the

961
00:52:55,480 --> 00:53:00,680
maritime Academy.
And and so there there's in my

962
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:05,360
mind there's a real need for
people who are successful to

963
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:09,080
give back.
And if, if they don't give back,

964
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:13,920
then what are they doing?
You know there's only so why?

965
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:16,400
Are we here?
Why are we here Not we're here

966
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:19,640
to help one another.
And you know, whether it's a

967
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:23,920
local hospital or it's a local
food pantry, if we have

968
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:26,400
capacity, we need to help,
right?

969
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:29,800
And I, I, and I wanted to
instill that into my children.

970
00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:32,440
And that's why I created the
Family Foundation because I

971
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:34,240
wanted my 4 kids to be part of
that.

972
00:53:34,240 --> 00:53:37,760
And when I pass away, I want
them to do that.

973
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:42,160
I want them to, you know, run
that foundation and and and make

974
00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:44,560
good decisions and and help
others.

975
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:47,960
Well, I think you're doing just
an amazing job with that.

976
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:51,280
And, and I couldn't be, you
know, more proud to just say I

977
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:56,200
know Alan Mckim and thank you
for for doing that.

978
00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:57,600
I mean, it's, it's, it's
amazing.

979
00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:00,840
And you know, you, you can tell
your Christian faith is just

980
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:03,560
immense.
Putting together a terrible

981
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:06,840
foundation like that and, and
giving to others is just really

982
00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:11,000
the true essence of humanity and
what we do in life and what we

983
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:13,480
should be doing.
You know, I, I went through the,

984
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:15,920
the final postscript.
You know, it's like the 10

985
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:18,760
lesson learned for, you know,
entrepreneurs trying to get into

986
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:21,680
the business, right?
And they're really 10 here.

987
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:23,800
I'm not going to go through all
10, but I just want to mention a

988
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:25,240
few of them.
And you could just touch on a

989
00:54:25,240 --> 00:54:28,280
couple, but one is safety.
We've been talking about safe

990
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:29,680
being first, right?
Safety's first.

991
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:34,640
Second one was cash is king.
And you know, and then the third

992
00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:37,800
one was raise money when you
can, not when you need to, It's.

993
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:40,080
So true.
It's so true.

994
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:43,520
You know, like that's one thing
that I have regrets about early

995
00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:47,040
on when, when I was running the
business, when I was starting

996
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:50,520
the business, I, I only had
$15,000 invested in the company

997
00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:54,400
and I really was borrowing on
receivables and living hand to

998
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:56,720
mouth.
And I wish that I had maybe

999
00:54:56,720 --> 00:55:03,040
taken on a partner or brought
more equity in and because then

1000
00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:05,920
when I really needed the equity,
maybe it wasn't the banks

1001
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:08,360
weren't willing to lend.
I was too over leveraged.

1002
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:11,920
And so I think that was just one
of the things that I always look

1003
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:16,560
back and say maybe those first
10-15 years in business might

1004
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:21,000
have been a little bit easier if
we had a little bit more cash

1005
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:25,400
and had not been so tight
running to the mailbox every day

1006
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:27,800
to get, you know, paychecks
covered.

1007
00:55:28,240 --> 00:55:30,800
Yeah, right.
I like #5 it said.

1008
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:35,640
Build a strong professional
advisor network, have a great

1009
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:40,040
legal team, a good banking, a
good accountant and a good board

1010
00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:42,640
of directors, right.
Those are some like key ones

1011
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:44,760
there.
And I think that's great words

1012
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:48,320
of advice and be willing to take
risk and fail, but obviously

1013
00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:51,280
don't fail too often.
But you got to be able to do

1014
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:52,920
that, right?
Absolutely.

1015
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:56,240
Yeah, and the book was amazing.
I think anybody who's in our

1016
00:55:56,240 --> 00:55:59,160
industry, in the environmental
industry needs to read this

1017
00:55:59,160 --> 00:56:01,920
book.
I promoted it on my monthly

1018
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:06,280
newsletter that I do for the
podcast and sends out to a

1019
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:10,640
couple 1000 people that's on my
list and I get it out and, and

1020
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:13,560
share with, you know, what's
what's the latest episode?

1021
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:17,240
Who's on the horizon?
Do kind of a NEWS UPDATE for the

1022
00:56:17,240 --> 00:56:19,920
month, what's going on.
And then I always do a book of

1023
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:22,400
the month, and I highlighted
your book this month.

1024
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:24,720
Oh, wonderful.
Thank you very much for that.

1025
00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:27,240
You bet.
It's really a tribute to the

1026
00:56:27,240 --> 00:56:31,960
employees here at Clean Harbors
and you know, I've been blessed

1027
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:34,760
be because of them.
Oh, I can, yeah.

1028
00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:37,600
Yeah, it's great to.
It's great to have you on the

1029
00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:40,320
show, Alan.
I really appreciate your

1030
00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:43,320
willingness to take my
invitation to come on to the

1031
00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:46,080
show.
I think you are an amazing

1032
00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:49,400
individual, an amazing leader in
our our business.

1033
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:51,840
You are kind of like one of the
Mount Rushmore of the

1034
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:55,240
environmental business leaders
in my mind when I think about

1035
00:56:55,240 --> 00:56:57,200
who's grown this business to
where it is.

1036
00:56:57,680 --> 00:56:59,200
This is great to have you on the
show.

1037
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:01,920
I really appreciate you.
Thank you very much for having

1038
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:03,760
me and I really appreciate your
kindness.

1039
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:05,880
Thank you.
All right, Alan, well, we're

1040
00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:08,800
going to get this out episode
out here in the next week and

1041
00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:11,440
it's going to be great.
And feel free to share with all

1042
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:13,240
your friends and your network.
I appreciate it.

1043
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:17,800
And I'll give you, I'll give you
some feedback by e-mail, if

1044
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:20,600
that's all right, along the way.
Absolutely, 100%.

1045
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:23,040
I would love it, absolutely.
Thanks for listening and

1046
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:24,720
watching the show.
If you enjoyed.

1047
00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:27,560
The show then please share it
with your friends and Co workers

1048
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:30,160
on social media and tell
somebody in person.

1049
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:32,520
Thanks for being with us, ET
Nation.