The Insecurity of Everything with Co-Author John Shegerian, CEO of ERI.

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20 years ago, the people buying
electronics off our shores, as

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you said about 15 minutes ago
into our conversation, Sean,

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where people that wanted to mine
the copper, the gold or the

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other precious metals out of our
old electronics, this could have

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been in Hong Kong, it could have
been in India, it could have

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been in Africa and other parts
of the world.

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They said that's still ongoing,
but only on about 50% of the

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electronics that are being
purchased.

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They said, now we've tracked the
other fifty or so percent of the

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electronics that are being
purchased off our shores to

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people who have, and this is
their terminology, who have

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adverse interests for our
Homeland Security.

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They said they're pulling the
hard drives and using it for

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ransomware attacks or using it
for understanding the American

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security protocols and figure
out ways to breach those

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protocols in the future.
So it's a huge risk when it

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comes to households in America.
Yeah, nations and our Homeland

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Security itself.
Welcome to the Environmental

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00:01:14,460 --> 00:01:17,540
Transformation Podcast, where we
talked with industry leaders,

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00:01:17,740 --> 00:01:20,300
climate champions and
sustainability professionals who

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Each leader solving complex
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That's www.seankgrady.com and
become a member of the ET Nation

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Today.
In today's episode, we are

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00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:24,400
giving away a copy of John's new
book, The Insecurity of

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Everything, to every listener
who goes to my website and signs

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00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:30,360
up for our newsletter.
Cybersecurity and proper

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recycling of e-waste is becoming
one of the biggest concerns we

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face in society today, and this
book will help educate you on

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00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:42,040
the importance of this topic.
To receive your free copy of

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00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:45,480
John's new book, I will send a
link to the book request form

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00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:48,600
that you can fill out and have a
copy mailed to you.

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00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:53,840
So what are you waiting for?
Go to www.seankgrady.com and

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00:02:53,840 --> 00:03:06,270
sign up to get your copy today.
Welcome to the Environmental

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00:03:06,270 --> 00:03:08,990
Transformation Podcast.
I'm your host, Sean Grady.

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Today's guest is John Shakir and
he's the CEO and of ERI and the

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coauthor of the best selling
book The Insecurity of

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Everything.
And if you haven't read this

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book yet, it's actually quite
amazing.

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It's an Amazon bestseller and
you know, John is a serial

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entrepreneur responsible for
cofounding Homeboy Industries.

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Financialaid.com engage in many
other impactful organizations.

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And he currently serves as the
cofounder, chairman of the ERI

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organization, which is an
electronic recycling company and

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it's the largest cyber security
focused, hardware destruction,

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electronic waste recycling
company in the United States.

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And you know what?
I think they think maybe in the

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world too.
So this is pretty cool.

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John, welcome to the show.
Honor to be here today with you,

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Sean, and thanks for having me.
Absolutely, absolutely.

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So, you know, tell us a little
bit about your background, John,

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how you got started in the
industry and, you know, you

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know, how'd you get here?
Yeah, that's a great question.

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My, my, you know, when I think
back down 59, So, you know, you

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try to try to understand like,
how did this whole thing happen?

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You know, there's not really no
accidents.

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And when I think about it, my
dad was a serial entrepreneur

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and my mom was a social worker.
She still is.

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My dad's passed, but my mom at
82 is still doing her job every

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day as a social worker.
And so you put social worker

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with serial entrepreneur, you
sort of get social entrepreneur.

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And you know, I never, never
dreamed of, really.

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There was no such thing as
social entrepreneur.

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When father Greg Boyle and I and
others cofounded Homeboy

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Industries, really started as
homeboy.

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Tortillas morphed into Homeboy
Industries back in the early

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90s.
But then after that my wife and

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I said we don't want to do any
more businesses that just make

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money for making money sake and
there's no shame in that.

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It's a capitalist society and
and you know and it's one of the

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pillars of United States in
terms of innovation and

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capitalism.
But we want to make a profit but

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also make an impact at the same
time and that's what we focused

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on, businesses that make an
impact but still make a profit

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and make the world a better
place along the way.

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So that's how really I ended up
Co founding ERI with my current

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partners, both my wife and my
two Co founders Aaron, Aaron

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Blum and Kevin Dillon and and
and so that's how I got here

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today, Sean.
Well, that's fantastic.

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I mean, hey, you gotta like
having, you know, some sort of a

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passion and a, you know, a
purpose behind your your

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businesses and so.
That's what you've done.

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It's a great, that's a great
story.

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So, well, I mean tell us a
little bit about ERI because you

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know for the ones for you know
the listeners ERI is is like as

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I mentioned earlier one of the
largest or the largest you know,

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electronic recycling firms in
the country.

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So talk about this.
This is awesome.

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Well, it's funny.
I never was.

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I came out of the Internet
business, so I had started

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financially.com in 98 the year
Google was founded, Sean.

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So this wasn't the next venture
that I was planning on.

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I thought maybe I'd do another
Internet venture or something

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because we really got very, very
lucky.

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Michael, Brian, Matt, O'Brien
and myself, the my 2 cofounders

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there.
And and when when an

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entrepreneur doesn't give luck
to credit that it's due, it's a

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little bit disingenuous and we
got lucky.

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You know we this was the Wild
West of entrepreneurial

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youknow.com days and our and our
business clicked And so when I

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got out of that and so we sold
that company to CIT in October

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of 2004.
My cofounding partner here Aaron

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Blum had started this company in
already in San Diego and we have

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become friends in 2002 where we
were running financialaid.com

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close by.
And I was sort of keeping an eye

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on this whole opportunity and
really back then think about it

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this way, Sean.
There was no such thing as an

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iPhone or an iPad.
It was.

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It was, you know, drones, drones
and robotics, and they're not

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part of our lexicon.
Al Gore had not won an Academy

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Award for the.
Internet.

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So I mean it was really the
beginnings of tides and and when

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you when you looked at the hard
facts, the e-waste was the

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fastest growing sawway stream in
the world back then.

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So there was a real need to do
this business.

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It was the backside of the
technological revolution that

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nobody really thought about when
they were creating all these

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amazing gadgets and and and so
we said Okay, this is a new

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mountain to climb.
So we closed down his San Diego

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location, changed the name,
recapitalized it, bought out

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some of the current partners,
brought in some new partners,

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and we opened up in April 05 in
Fresno, CA.

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Now our first month of business
in Fresno, we recycled about

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£10,000 of electronic waste.
We said all this is great, it's

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going to be a nice little
localized california-based

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business and and then if you
Fast forward 17 years later,

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last month, you know we recycled
about give or take £20 million

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of electronic waste.
So when I say we recycle

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responsibly recycled that means
none of that went to a landfill.

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So when done right, Sean, zero
waste, 0 landfill and 0

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emissions coming out of our own
factories.

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And that's a powerful story.
It's amazing.

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I mean that's that's that's
really impressive plus it's kind

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of you know talking about the
circular economy concept too

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like you're finding end users
for the products and and taking

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a you know waste stream and and
making it A use for you know

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future use and reharvesting the
good parts out of it.

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And it's interesting your story
started kind of like in 2005 and

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and creating this business, you
know?

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I went into consulting in 2002.
I was a regulator for eight

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years before I went to
consulting.

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Then I went into environmental
consulting and I started a group

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in my company called Waste
Services.

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And so I was in.
I was responsible for building a

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group inside our company and all
we did was contract with vendors

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like yourself and other disposal
companies on behalf of our

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clients.
Because, you know, waste is a

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complicated process and it's
regulate regulated in a lot of

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different ways, especially from
the industrial side, you know?

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MSW is pretty, that's pretty
straightforward, that's easy.

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But the, you know so we grew a
business like that and I just

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recently stepped out of that
business and at the end of 2019

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had 50 people.
All we did was manage business.

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Created a software for it, then
I went into our digital

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practice.
So we've got a little similar

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business here.
You were doing that in North

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America?
Yes.

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And I still still focused on,
I'm still connected to it.

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So maybe we can talk offline at
some point to get more Intel on

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that.
But there's a lot of

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similarities here.
You started it when the e-waste

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was becoming a topic like how do
we deal with e-waste, right and.

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You started that process now
also interesting to point out,

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which I know you know because
you're you're you're heavily

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involved with the business as
well.

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Back then, Sean, there was no
such thing as Chief

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Sustainability Officers.
Here, No es circular economy

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00:10:32,500 --> 00:10:36,540
weren't words that were used.
No trash disposal in the United

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States and North America.
So it's truly when you were you

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know, evolving your business and
we were evolving ours.

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It was the beginnings of time
really for this, you know, this

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00:10:47,310 --> 00:10:51,150
whole shift which is now seems
to be an unstoppable shift from

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a linear to circular economy.
But there's a lot of time in

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between 05 and 2217 years of.
Absolutely no climb.

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00:10:59,230 --> 00:11:01,590
Absolutely.
I mean and and to think of you

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00:11:01,590 --> 00:11:03,190
know in terms of the.
You know, as waste.

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00:11:03,190 --> 00:11:07,070
Professionals, we were always
looking to recycle reuse as you

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00:11:07,070 --> 00:11:09,750
know the the, the pyramid, right
Everybody was like hey what's

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00:11:09,750 --> 00:11:12,230
the waste hierarchy and.
And that's how we talked about

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00:11:12,230 --> 00:11:14,990
it, but we didn't talk about in
the in the terms of ESG and

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00:11:14,990 --> 00:11:18,150
sustainability and that really
vernacular really started to

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00:11:18,150 --> 00:11:20,550
come into play in the past, you
know three to four years.

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00:11:21,310 --> 00:11:22,590
That's it.
And and now it's like well,

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00:11:22,590 --> 00:11:26,030
we've been doing this for a long
time, it's just we didn't call

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00:11:26,030 --> 00:11:28,070
it that.
And so we're truly like the the

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00:11:28,070 --> 00:11:31,310
original, the OG of
sustainability people, right,

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Right.
We were early, but now the

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world's caught up to us.
So that's actually, it's fun and

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00:11:35,790 --> 00:11:38,790
exciting.
You know, we're vindicated.

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That's right.
That's right.

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I love it.
I love it.

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00:11:43,470 --> 00:11:46,830
Well, why is e-waste the fastest
growing waste stream on the

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00:11:46,830 --> 00:11:49,150
planet?
Yeah, well, that's interesting.

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00:11:49,150 --> 00:11:52,070
It's, well, that's, let me just
even qualify that.

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00:11:52,350 --> 00:11:56,630
It was the fastest growing
sawway stream back from 02 to 05

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00:11:56,630 --> 00:11:59,150
when we were studying about
getting into it and got into it.

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00:11:59,430 --> 00:12:04,870
But now, Sean, depending whose
numbers you look at, it's two to

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00:12:04,910 --> 00:12:08,050
four times the fastest growing
solid waste stream.

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00:12:08,250 --> 00:12:12,770
So it's even accelerated in
terms of its growth over the

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00:12:12,770 --> 00:12:17,290
number two fastest growing solid
waste stream, which is a post

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00:12:17,290 --> 00:12:21,170
consumer solid waste plastic.
So let's think about this, what

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00:12:21,170 --> 00:12:22,930
didn't exist when we got in the
industry.

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00:12:23,050 --> 00:12:26,570
So I'm wearing as a wedding
ring, I'm wearing my aura ring

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00:12:26,570 --> 00:12:28,730
here.
This is e-waste when it comes to

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00:12:28,730 --> 00:12:31,270
its end of life.
I'm wearing my Garmin watch,

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00:12:31,270 --> 00:12:32,870
which has a lithium ion battery
in it.

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That all probably.
I mean, we must be cleared.

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00:12:36,390 --> 00:12:38,670
We're ready.
The same suit, the same shirt.

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I mean, Jesus, someone told us
how to dress today.

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You can't write.
You can't make this up, John.

225
00:12:44,990 --> 00:12:48,870
This is crazy.
So, so now you have all these

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00:12:48,910 --> 00:12:51,990
wearables that you and I are
both wearing, obviously.

227
00:12:51,990 --> 00:12:56,020
And then you have the Internet
of Things, you know Nest and and

228
00:12:56,020 --> 00:12:59,300
Ring and all that Internet of
Things plus also the EV cars

229
00:12:59,300 --> 00:13:02,700
have become computers on wheel.
So, so the the, the

230
00:13:02,700 --> 00:13:06,900
proliferation and the ubiquity
of electronics now have made it

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00:13:07,140 --> 00:13:09,740
even expanded the problem.
And when you look at the UN, the

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00:13:09,820 --> 00:13:12,660
United Nations numbers, these
are about 5 years old.

233
00:13:12,660 --> 00:13:14,780
So I just want you and your
listeners to have a little

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00:13:14,780 --> 00:13:20,020
context.
Only about 17% of all

235
00:13:20,020 --> 00:13:23,540
electronics that are being used
in the planet today are being

236
00:13:23,540 --> 00:13:25,700
responsibly recycled when they
come to an end of life.

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00:13:25,940 --> 00:13:29,580
So for us it's still shown the
top of the first inning and the

238
00:13:29,580 --> 00:13:34,020
delta of opportunity for us and
and other opportunity, you know

239
00:13:34,020 --> 00:13:38,020
other entrepreneurs out there is
it 83% delta, it's massive.

240
00:13:38,220 --> 00:13:41,180
Massive and everybody, there's
plenty of pie out there to be

241
00:13:41,180 --> 00:13:42,980
had, right?
You know, it's not like, no,

242
00:13:42,980 --> 00:13:45,540
someone's got the market here,
so that's really cool.

243
00:13:45,540 --> 00:13:47,900
But you guys are well positioned
to really?

244
00:13:48,540 --> 00:13:51,620
Launch even bigger than you are.
I mean, you're already huge.

245
00:13:51,860 --> 00:13:52,980
Yeah.
And think about it.

246
00:13:52,980 --> 00:13:56,140
And I'm here in Indianapolis and
so I know you have a site right

247
00:13:56,140 --> 00:13:58,660
over in Plainfield.
That's our biggest facility in

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00:13:58,660 --> 00:14:01,260
in, in the United States.
It's called the biggest facility

249
00:14:01,460 --> 00:14:05,220
in the world.
And when when my wife said years

250
00:14:05,220 --> 00:14:09,780
ago, about 15 years, 14 years
ago now let's put our third

251
00:14:09,780 --> 00:14:13,940
location in Indianapolis in
Plainfield, I said why she's and

252
00:14:13,940 --> 00:14:15,260
she came out of the food
industry.

253
00:14:15,260 --> 00:14:18,500
She said, John, logistically
speaking it's the crossroads of

254
00:14:18,500 --> 00:14:21,780
America and boy was she right.
She did that nail on the head.

255
00:14:21,780 --> 00:14:26,140
We opened there and we've always
been we we, we grew that from

256
00:14:26,140 --> 00:14:30,180
originally a 50,000 square foot
building to 75 to 100.

257
00:14:30,380 --> 00:14:34,580
Now we're up to about 380,000
feet in in Plainfield and Amazon

258
00:14:34,580 --> 00:14:37,100
built one of their largest
distribution centers there as

259
00:14:37,100 --> 00:14:39,380
did so many other huge and
wonderful brands and.

260
00:14:39,420 --> 00:14:41,220
Walmart's closed.
Yeah.

261
00:14:41,220 --> 00:14:44,660
I mean, you know, right.
And it's a great state to do

262
00:14:44,660 --> 00:14:46,420
business in.
The people have been sold

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00:14:46,500 --> 00:14:49,660
amazing to us.
You know both the state, the

264
00:14:49,660 --> 00:14:52,820
state leadership and also just
the employee base.

265
00:14:53,140 --> 00:14:55,980
It's just it just couldn't be a
better state to do business and

266
00:14:56,060 --> 00:14:58,300
so business friendly.
That's great.

267
00:14:58,300 --> 00:15:00,700
Now I agree with that
wholeheartedly.

268
00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:08,400
Did you know E Tank is the only
environmental rental equipment

269
00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:11,840
company in the industry that
offers a 100% certified clean

270
00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:13,640
guarantee and no additional
cost?

271
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:16,320
Well this gives customers the
Peace of Mind knowing that

272
00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:19,160
container contents from the
previous renter isn't going to

273
00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:21,760
cross contaminate the contents
of the current customer and

274
00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:23,840
potentially cause liability
concerns.

275
00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:27,720
You know, E Tank also provides a
one-of-a-kind complete

276
00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:31,200
maintenance program for all its
rental items, including liquid

277
00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:33,480
tight roll off containers, fluid
transfer.

278
00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:37,480
Pumps and Filtration System
Components To learn more about

279
00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:40,680
the types of containers that
pumps E Tank supplies, check out

280
00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:45,960
their website at www.etank.net.
So the next time you are faced

281
00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:49,400
with an environmentally
challenging project, give E Tank

282
00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:51,560
a call to help solve your
problem.

283
00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:57,520
It's just that easy.
Well, you know, with e-waste

284
00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:00,640
being both an environmental and
a data security problem, how

285
00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:04,520
serious is the issue of hardware
hacking and discarded, you know,

286
00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:06,760
electronics?
Because I think that's like the

287
00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:09,200
big secret of the big worry
that, you know, people aren't

288
00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:12,720
really talking about, yeah.
And by the way, that's really

289
00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:14,360
what your book really gets down
to.

290
00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:15,920
Is that?
So let's dig into this.

291
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:17,240
Yeah.
And thank you for showing the

292
00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:18,640
book.
And by the way, just so you

293
00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:22,200
know, Sean, here's the offer
I'll do for all of your

294
00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:24,720
listeners, anyone who wants a
free copy of the book.

295
00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:27,680
Because I didn't write it to
make money or to be Shakespeare

296
00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:34,840
or or or or any type of fancy
purpose except just as an

297
00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:37,780
education tool.
Because it is a big secret.

298
00:16:37,780 --> 00:16:40,420
It's still a big secret.
So here's the deal.

299
00:16:40,740 --> 00:16:42,460
When we start, we started this
company.

300
00:16:42,460 --> 00:16:44,940
We started paying attention to
other data points out there.

301
00:16:45,140 --> 00:16:47,420
So we saw the advent and rise of
Palantir.

302
00:16:47,420 --> 00:16:52,380
They started about 2003 in
Silicon Valley, 2007 LifeLock in

303
00:16:52,420 --> 00:16:55,340
in Arizona and the whole issue
of personal privacy.

304
00:16:55,700 --> 00:16:58,700
And we started paying attention
to this word cybersecurity that

305
00:16:58,700 --> 00:17:02,380
was being used more and more,
you know on the in the media and

306
00:17:02,380 --> 00:17:04,500
and and and everything that we
were seeing.

307
00:17:05,010 --> 00:17:09,730
And in about 2011, 1213 we
started saying you know what if

308
00:17:09,730 --> 00:17:13,770
shredded made a business out of
shredding data on paper.

309
00:17:14,210 --> 00:17:17,089
We're going to focus with our
shredders, which we have the

310
00:17:17,089 --> 00:17:22,770
world's largest E way shredders
anyway and unresponsible

311
00:17:22,770 --> 00:17:26,930
hardware data destruction.
And we started messaging that

312
00:17:26,930 --> 00:17:30,180
and people looked at us like we
were a little bit off, like, I

313
00:17:30,220 --> 00:17:32,580
mean, not really, yeah.
Yeah, Really.

314
00:17:32,580 --> 00:17:36,540
I mean, what's the big deal?
You want to destroy my hardware

315
00:17:36,540 --> 00:17:37,220
data?
Come on.

316
00:17:37,220 --> 00:17:38,740
I mean, you're done with it.
Yeah.

317
00:17:38,740 --> 00:17:39,860
Yeah.
And they were already, I mean,

318
00:17:39,860 --> 00:17:41,940
listen, as you know already,
because you're right in the

319
00:17:41,940 --> 00:17:44,950
middle of the industry as well,
they're already skeptical of

320
00:17:44,950 --> 00:17:46,510
just the e-waste industry
itself.

321
00:17:46,510 --> 00:17:49,150
Like, why parse out our trash
even more?

322
00:17:49,390 --> 00:17:51,790
Come on.
It's a waste of time or is it

323
00:17:51,790 --> 00:17:55,030
really necessary?
And then there's the concerns

324
00:17:55,030 --> 00:17:58,150
that people just taking the the
East scrap and selling it to 3rd

325
00:17:58,150 --> 00:18:01,190
party, you know third world
countries and they're worried

326
00:18:01,190 --> 00:18:05,070
about that and proper disposal.
So it became it's been coming an

327
00:18:05,070 --> 00:18:08,820
issue, right, right.
So then we got lucky like like

328
00:18:08,820 --> 00:18:12,180
everything else like every other
venture they that that actually

329
00:18:12,180 --> 00:18:15,060
evolves and gets bigger and
doesn't go out of business with

330
00:18:15,060 --> 00:18:19,020
all the potholes and and you
know and hurdles that are facing

331
00:18:19,020 --> 00:18:20,980
the entrepreneur and we all face
them.

332
00:18:20,980 --> 00:18:22,940
There's nobody that's immune
from that.

333
00:18:23,220 --> 00:18:25,620
You and I both know that at the
since, we've both traveled the

334
00:18:25,620 --> 00:18:29,140
entrepreneur's journey.
So at 2017, I was at a

335
00:18:29,140 --> 00:18:32,380
cybersecurity conference in New
York City speaking at it on a

336
00:18:32,380 --> 00:18:35,440
panel and A and a young man
named Robert Hackett, who was

337
00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:40,120
the lead writer for Fortune
magazine, walked up to me after

338
00:18:40,120 --> 00:18:42,240
the conference was over and
handed me his business card.

339
00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:43,840
Say, hey, can I have your
business card again?

340
00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:47,120
My card goes, listen, I'm going
to talk to my editors, but I

341
00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:50,120
think we missed this issue at at
Fortune.

342
00:18:50,120 --> 00:18:54,440
We've been covering just the
software part of cybersecurity.

343
00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:56,240
Let me get back to you in about
a week.

344
00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:58,680
And Trudeau is worried About a
week later, he called me back,

345
00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:02,010
said my editor said go for it.
Nice.

346
00:19:02,090 --> 00:19:04,290
They wrote an article on us.
It was called Dead but not

347
00:19:04,290 --> 00:19:06,930
forgotten.
And I'll spare you all the

348
00:19:06,930 --> 00:19:09,850
terminology in the article, but
the last two sentences of the

349
00:19:09,850 --> 00:19:15,010
article go like this, Sean.
It turns out that e-waste is not

350
00:19:15,010 --> 00:19:18,770
only an environmental hazard,
but a cybersecurity one as well.

351
00:19:19,850 --> 00:19:24,010
And we took that article in the
hard copy of Fortune and we took

352
00:19:24,010 --> 00:19:28,450
it to every potential client and
and and already ongoing clients.

353
00:19:28,850 --> 00:19:32,590
And we prosecuted that article
and said This is why this is an

354
00:19:32,630 --> 00:19:35,790
important issue.
You guys got to listen up and

355
00:19:36,030 --> 00:19:40,590
for the most part, once they're
educated, they really do want to

356
00:19:40,590 --> 00:19:44,750
do the right thing.
But the problem is I had a I was

357
00:19:44,750 --> 00:19:48,070
asked to speak in front of a
bunch of ex investment bankers

358
00:19:48,070 --> 00:19:50,910
that have now investing family
office money.

359
00:19:51,870 --> 00:19:56,150
All very well, very well known
folks who've been doing it for

360
00:19:56,150 --> 00:20:00,150
20-30 years and we had a Zoom
meeting about a week ago.

361
00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,320
None of them even heard of this
side of the industry, the

362
00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:07,600
cybersecurity side.
It's still the great secret of

363
00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:11,960
the cyber industry, and the data
risks that that are that lurk

364
00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,720
within all of our old hardware
could be catastrophic if they

365
00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,720
get into the wrong hands.
Yeah, I mean, you know.

366
00:20:20,210 --> 00:20:26,130
I read your book and I just was
fascinated by just example after

367
00:20:26,130 --> 00:20:28,450
example.
You know, industry after

368
00:20:28,450 --> 00:20:30,970
industry having the same
similarities.

369
00:20:30,970 --> 00:20:34,290
It's like it was repeating the
same theme over and over and I

370
00:20:34,290 --> 00:20:38,450
just kept going, wow, okay,
it's, you know, So what led you

371
00:20:38,450 --> 00:20:41,410
guys to write this book?
And you know what?

372
00:20:41,410 --> 00:20:43,130
Do you hope the people will
learn from it?

373
00:20:43,130 --> 00:20:47,140
Because.
I mean, it spoke to me even in

374
00:20:47,140 --> 00:20:49,220
more detail.
I mean, not that I didn't know

375
00:20:49,220 --> 00:20:52,980
this was an issue, right?
But now it's like it's become

376
00:20:52,980 --> 00:20:56,340
more aware in front of mind and
it's great and it's becoming

377
00:20:56,340 --> 00:21:01,140
bigger and bigger every year.
It's bigger, but we wrote it

378
00:21:01,140 --> 00:21:07,300
because again, there was no book
really on this topic that we saw

379
00:21:07,300 --> 00:21:09,580
out there in the marketplace
that was educating people.

380
00:21:09,580 --> 00:21:12,420
So we said let's just write it
as an education tool.

381
00:21:12,700 --> 00:21:16,100
Let's just get it done as fast
as possible and get all the best

382
00:21:16,100 --> 00:21:19,540
information as possible and then
make it as available to as many

383
00:21:19,540 --> 00:21:22,380
people as possible.
Amazon did a great job marketing

384
00:21:22,380 --> 00:21:26,060
it as well and they they really
helped optimize it.

385
00:21:26,260 --> 00:21:29,460
It became an Amazon bestseller
in the cyberspace, just to be

386
00:21:29,460 --> 00:21:31,940
clear.
But that's why I even say I

387
00:21:31,940 --> 00:21:35,260
don't want to make money on it.
I just want your listeners to

388
00:21:35,260 --> 00:21:38,910
get it in their hands and just
it's a it's a one night couple

389
00:21:38,910 --> 00:21:41,590
hour read in bed.
But it will at least give a good

390
00:21:41,590 --> 00:21:46,030
overview that even if it if you
don't work for a big company or

391
00:21:46,030 --> 00:21:49,030
big organization just to protect
your own household.

392
00:21:49,230 --> 00:21:52,710
You've got to make sure that the
folks that handle your old

393
00:21:52,710 --> 00:21:56,470
electronics when they come to
the end of life are responsible

394
00:21:56,590 --> 00:21:57,950
and are going to do the right
thing with it.

395
00:21:57,950 --> 00:22:01,910
Because you just don't want your
household, or if you work for a

396
00:22:01,910 --> 00:22:06,490
big corporation, the the
electronics that you touch in

397
00:22:06,490 --> 00:22:09,570
your job or in any other
capacity to get into the wrong

398
00:22:09,570 --> 00:22:12,370
people's hands.
Yeah, No, exactly.

399
00:22:12,370 --> 00:22:15,090
I mean, yeah, we want the
listeners to get a copy of this

400
00:22:15,090 --> 00:22:16,850
book too.
I mean, we want them to pick it

401
00:22:16,850 --> 00:22:20,090
up and read it and educate
themselves more than just what

402
00:22:20,170 --> 00:22:23,650
this podcast is doing for them.
You know, the ET Nation is

403
00:22:23,650 --> 00:22:26,290
pretty, pretty loyal and they're
really listening to a lot of

404
00:22:26,290 --> 00:22:29,570
the, you know, the episodes that
we have and the great content

405
00:22:29,570 --> 00:22:31,690
that we're bringing in every
every other week or so.

406
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:35,160
But you know, this is a topic
that they all need to focus on.

407
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:38,400
You know, it's not just all
about ESG or climate change.

408
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,280
This is another very important
topic that they need to take a

409
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,920
listen to.
So, and I think your book really

410
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,440
lays out the, you know, the
argument of, you know, hey,

411
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:51,320
software cybersecurity has been
really, you know, has been more

412
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:53,640
addressed in in front of mine
with a lot of people with, you

413
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:57,480
know LifeLock and lots of other
type programs but.

414
00:22:58,360 --> 00:23:01,040
Again, what do you do when
you're done with the actual

415
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,880
product and you and now our
society is such disposal

416
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:06,960
society.
I mean they like, hey, I got a

417
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,120
new iPhone, the darn thing works
great.

418
00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:11,600
But I want the newer one and you
get rid of it.

419
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,760
Well, all your personal
information is on that, that

420
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:19,480
device and is it getting
destroyed or recycled or reused

421
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:21,800
probably or you know, or wiped
out.

422
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:24,240
So everything's there.
I mean it's not happening.

423
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:25,840
I was read the, read the
statistics.

424
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:29,800
You said you know, reused.
Equipment that's purchased is 47

425
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,080
or 50%.
You know, it's got personal data

426
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:35,520
on those those devices that are
resold and that's compromising

427
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:41,840
people's personal lives so 100%.
And the stories with regards to

428
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,080
electronics that they use that
large organizations.

429
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,800
So these three letter agencies
that we know that are tasked

430
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:53,730
with protecting this great
nation and lovely people who

431
00:23:53,730 --> 00:23:58,170
even on a benign basis, when
their laptops or other

432
00:23:58,490 --> 00:24:02,490
electronics come to the end of
life, those people have been

433
00:24:02,490 --> 00:24:04,650
found putting their old
electronics up on eBay or

434
00:24:04,650 --> 00:24:07,410
Craigslist.
I don't know how that happens,

435
00:24:07,410 --> 00:24:10,210
but that's crazy.
But it's true.

436
00:24:10,210 --> 00:24:12,850
And I would never say that if I
didn't know that to be true.

437
00:24:12,850 --> 00:24:15,890
Now in the office I'm sitting in
right now in Fresno, CA.

438
00:24:15,890 --> 00:24:19,260
Sean, we have the ground floor.
ERI has the ground floor.

439
00:24:19,260 --> 00:24:22,820
On the third floor is the FBI.
Now this part of the FBI is a

440
00:24:22,820 --> 00:24:25,500
division of FBI, back slash,
Homeland Security.

441
00:24:26,020 --> 00:24:28,380
And we've met with the folks in
this building and they've come

442
00:24:28,380 --> 00:24:30,620
and educated us.
And they said, listen John, and

443
00:24:30,620 --> 00:24:33,980
they said this to our executive
team 20 years ago.

444
00:24:33,980 --> 00:24:36,900
The people buying electronics
off our shores, as you said

445
00:24:36,900 --> 00:24:41,060
about 15 minutes ago into our
conversation, Sean, where people

446
00:24:41,460 --> 00:24:44,620
that wanted to mine the copper,
the gold or the other precious

447
00:24:44,620 --> 00:24:46,840
metals out of our old
electronics.

448
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:48,680
This could have been in Hong
Kong, it could have been in

449
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:50,560
India, it could have been in
Africa and other parts of the

450
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,000
world.
They said that's still ongoing,

451
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,960
but only on about 50% of the
electronics that are being

452
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,280
purchased.
They said now we've tracked the

453
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,200
other 50 or so percent of the
electronics that are being

454
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,280
purchased off our shores to
people who have, and this is

455
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,040
their terminology, who have
adverse interests for our

456
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:10,320
Homeland Security.
They said they're pulling the

457
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:14,280
hard drives and using it for
ransomware attacks or using it

458
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:20,270
for understanding the American
security protocols and figure

459
00:25:20,270 --> 00:25:22,350
out ways to breach those
protocols in the future.

460
00:25:22,430 --> 00:25:28,190
So it's a huge risk when it
comes to households in America.

461
00:25:28,510 --> 00:25:32,350
Yeah, organizations and our
Homeland Security itself.

462
00:25:32,630 --> 00:25:35,950
Yeah, no, it does.
It does make you really think

463
00:25:35,950 --> 00:25:39,230
about, you know, how I should be
disposing of, you know,

464
00:25:39,230 --> 00:25:41,870
electronics and and it's funny.
I mean, I would imagine every

465
00:25:41,870 --> 00:25:46,910
American today.
Has at least 5 to 10 electronics

466
00:25:46,910 --> 00:25:49,790
sitting in their house that
they're not using anymore.

467
00:25:49,950 --> 00:25:52,750
I can count at least three or
four different phones I used to

468
00:25:52,750 --> 00:25:55,270
use that don't that are just
sitting here because I haven't

469
00:25:55,270 --> 00:25:58,070
sold them or I haven't done
anything with them, or I got old

470
00:25:58,070 --> 00:26:02,630
computers and I haven't done
personally, I haven't done a

471
00:26:02,630 --> 00:26:05,030
really good job of going and
wiping all the data on them.

472
00:26:05,030 --> 00:26:07,190
It's like, and maybe I don't
know how to do it properly,

473
00:26:07,630 --> 00:26:11,550
that's that's the issue most
people, Most people want to do

474
00:26:11,550 --> 00:26:13,270
the right thing.
Sure, let's be honest, most

475
00:26:13,270 --> 00:26:15,710
people are truly good people in
this country and around the

476
00:26:15,710 --> 00:26:17,390
world.
They want to do the right thing.

477
00:26:17,630 --> 00:26:21,070
But when they don't have the
knowledge or it, you want to

478
00:26:21,070 --> 00:26:22,830
know.
As you and I both know, one of

479
00:26:22,830 --> 00:26:27,870
the trademarks or pillars of
good recycling is easy

480
00:26:27,870 --> 00:26:30,910
recycling.
And if it's not easy or they

481
00:26:30,910 --> 00:26:34,030
don't understand really how to
do it the right way, it just

482
00:26:34,030 --> 00:26:36,710
freezes it.
So that way people get frozen

483
00:26:36,910 --> 00:26:38,190
and they just hold on to this
stuff.

484
00:26:38,660 --> 00:26:40,780
Now your numbers were very
conservative.

485
00:26:40,900 --> 00:26:45,340
According to the EPA, the
average person in America has 23

486
00:26:45,340 --> 00:26:49,060
old devices sitting in their
home or office looking to be

487
00:26:49,060 --> 00:26:52,420
disposed.
So I mean it's, it's, it's, the

488
00:26:52,420 --> 00:26:54,660
numbers are staggering.
Well, that's only going to

489
00:26:54,660 --> 00:26:58,260
proliferate, right, with this
whole Internet of Things And and

490
00:26:58,260 --> 00:27:00,780
we're going to get into that
conversation because I I've got

491
00:27:00,780 --> 00:27:02,060
a big question on that one
coming up.

492
00:27:02,060 --> 00:27:04,580
But you know how bad is cyber
crime?

493
00:27:04,890 --> 00:27:09,010
I mean, you know, I was reading
in the book, it said globally

494
00:27:09,250 --> 00:27:14,050
it's a it's it's it's costing
the economy $6 trillion a year.

495
00:27:14,650 --> 00:27:17,610
You you got the, you read the
book and you got the numbers

496
00:27:17,610 --> 00:27:20,130
exactly right.
Now here's the real interesting

497
00:27:20,130 --> 00:27:24,690
part of the six trillion We were
raised, Sean by by our parents

498
00:27:24,690 --> 00:27:27,210
and most people raised by their
parents telling him crime

499
00:27:27,210 --> 00:27:30,610
doesn't pay.
Unfortunately, cybercrime wasn't

500
00:27:30,610 --> 00:27:33,290
around when we were kids.
Fortunately, it wasn't around.

501
00:27:33,530 --> 00:27:36,490
And what's what's turned out to
be a cybercrime does pay for the

502
00:27:36,570 --> 00:27:40,530
for the bad guys.
And so in 2015, just seven years

503
00:27:40,530 --> 00:27:44,850
ago, the number was $3 trillion
that the bad guys made away with

504
00:27:44,850 --> 00:27:48,210
that year.
And now just in six short years,

505
00:27:48,570 --> 00:27:53,450
it's expanded to to to from 3
trillion to 6 trillion.

506
00:27:53,850 --> 00:27:57,370
It's a $3 trillion spread and
it's growing just as fail.

507
00:27:57,850 --> 00:28:01,240
So that there's it's it's
incredible how much they're

508
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:03,720
getting away with and why make
their job easy.

509
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,720
You know, they're already,
they're already winning this

510
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,280
war.
It's it's up to us to protect

511
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:11,960
ourselves and to protect the
organizations we work for or

512
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,960
with, because if we don't do it,
nobody else is.

513
00:28:15,120 --> 00:28:18,360
Well, and I think most average
Americans or most just average

514
00:28:18,360 --> 00:28:21,040
citizens and no matter what
country are you feel like

515
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,840
you're.
You're kind of defenseless cuz

516
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:27,320
you just don't even have the
knowledge to know what you need

517
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,160
to do to protect yourself or the
technology background to do

518
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,080
that.
I mean, like, you know, I read

519
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,720
in the book too, which is kind
of amazing is like there's a

520
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,320
cyber attack happening every 39
seconds.

521
00:28:42,990 --> 00:28:46,430
Today's episode is sponsored by
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522
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529
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530
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531
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532
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contact Cascade to help you
start cleaning up your site

533
00:29:27,250 --> 00:29:33,050
today.
And my question is, do we have

534
00:29:33,050 --> 00:29:35,610
enough laws to protect us in
this space?

535
00:29:35,610 --> 00:29:38,370
I mean.
I mean, where are the laws in

536
00:29:38,370 --> 00:29:40,570
the US?
That's what I'm really concerned

537
00:29:40,570 --> 00:29:41,890
about.
Yeah, well, it's a great

538
00:29:41,890 --> 00:29:43,090
question.
Thank gosh.

539
00:29:43,570 --> 00:29:49,610
In May of 2018, the EU passed
GDPR, which was privacy laws

540
00:29:49,610 --> 00:29:53,970
surrounding the misuse of
information by corporations or

541
00:29:53,970 --> 00:29:58,410
other organizations in the EU.
And then the EU can met out

542
00:29:58,410 --> 00:30:03,370
fines which they've done since
2018 that are not protecting

543
00:30:03,650 --> 00:30:08,250
their users or constituencies
data appropriately. the United

544
00:30:08,250 --> 00:30:12,290
States saw what the you did and
many times the US is informed by

545
00:30:12,850 --> 00:30:15,970
stuff that's going on in in
Europe that they think is doing

546
00:30:15,970 --> 00:30:19,050
it better or more forward
thinking that we're doing it and

547
00:30:19,050 --> 00:30:21,570
they started coming up with
their own versions of GDPR.

548
00:30:21,570 --> 00:30:23,850
But as Washington goes, as you
and I know.

549
00:30:24,250 --> 00:30:27,730
Politics is playing, you know,
their role in everything,

550
00:30:27,730 --> 00:30:30,650
unfortunately, some ways.
So the states then took it upon

551
00:30:30,650 --> 00:30:33,530
themselves to say we're not
going to wait for you goofballs

552
00:30:33,530 --> 00:30:35,610
in DC, we're going to do this
ourselves.

553
00:30:36,010 --> 00:30:38,530
So, so far, seven states have
passed their own version of

554
00:30:38,530 --> 00:30:41,130
GDPR.
And when you talk to the real

555
00:30:41,130 --> 00:30:45,170
people that are the the the
smartest people with regards to

556
00:30:45,450 --> 00:30:49,810
security and data privacy issues
and laws, they say every state

557
00:30:49,890 --> 00:30:53,690
in this great nation by 2025
will have their own version of

558
00:30:53,850 --> 00:30:56,650
data privacy laws.
Already California, New York,

559
00:30:56,650 --> 00:30:58,330
Nevada and many other states
have it.

560
00:30:58,610 --> 00:31:00,210
But other states are going to
follow.

561
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:04,120
And there's going to be just a
toughening and a tightening on

562
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:08,320
these issues to protect us, to
help us protect ourselves, but

563
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:12,680
also to make sure that those who
are abusing our data get

564
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:14,960
punished along the way.
Right, right.

565
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:16,560
I mean, yeah, I mean, where are
the law?

566
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:21,000
I mean, like if someone's
stealing your identity, you know

567
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,080
this.
These types of white collar

568
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,880
crimes need to have more.
Wait, behind the the, the

569
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:28,800
sentence in my mind.
I mean this.

570
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:31,120
We got to prevent these people
from doing this stuff.

571
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,640
Well Sean, you and I both know
our our own personal information

572
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:36,920
has been breached over the years
because how many times on our

573
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:41,480
cell phones do we get calls,
cold calls from sales people

574
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:45,480
because their company hurt this
that we're on.

575
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:50,480
And those lists are all
basically on in the in the sell

576
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,760
those lists in the black market
and make a fortune doing so.

577
00:31:54,220 --> 00:31:55,820
Yeah.
Now, yeah, that's and that's a

578
00:31:55,820 --> 00:31:59,140
good point.
You got those robo calls that

579
00:31:59,140 --> 00:32:01,900
come at you and you're like, I
didn't sign up for this, but,

580
00:32:02,220 --> 00:32:04,460
you know, somehow they're
getting our information or get

581
00:32:04,460 --> 00:32:08,180
these random texts from people
and it just it's it's crazy,

582
00:32:08,180 --> 00:32:12,340
it's it's nuts.
But, well, how important is it

583
00:32:12,340 --> 00:32:15,220
for us to properly dispose of
our electronics to, you know,

584
00:32:15,220 --> 00:32:17,180
protect our personal
information?

585
00:32:18,980 --> 00:32:20,980
It's it's it's important.
Like, listen.

586
00:32:21,300 --> 00:32:23,860
And it's not that hard.
I'll give you a couple of ideas

587
00:32:23,860 --> 00:32:26,900
why.
There's three organizations that

588
00:32:27,100 --> 00:32:29,660
your listeners should really
clue into for on the

589
00:32:29,660 --> 00:32:32,420
environmental side.
And it's really important to

590
00:32:32,420 --> 00:32:36,420
responsibly recycle your old
electronics just to protect the

591
00:32:36,420 --> 00:32:40,060
environment, just to be good to
our country and to mother and to

592
00:32:40,180 --> 00:32:43,300
and to Mother Earth that we all
inherited together and we're

593
00:32:43,300 --> 00:32:45,060
sort of tasked with taking care
of.

594
00:32:46,390 --> 00:32:49,550
That's East Stewards and R2,
Those are the two best

595
00:32:49,550 --> 00:32:52,630
environmental standards.
So look for a recycler in your

596
00:32:52,630 --> 00:32:55,750
area wherever you sit in the
United States or around the

597
00:32:55,750 --> 00:33:00,630
world who listens to your great
podcast, Sean, that they should

598
00:33:00,630 --> 00:33:03,830
be at least E stewards or R2
certified.

599
00:33:04,190 --> 00:33:06,310
That's on the environmental
side.

600
00:33:06,510 --> 00:33:10,170
When it comes to the data
protection side, they should be

601
00:33:10,290 --> 00:33:13,810
that recycler should also be
made Certified National

602
00:33:13,810 --> 00:33:15,730
Association of Information
Destruction.

603
00:33:16,170 --> 00:33:20,450
Now, that certification was
originally created 25 years ago

604
00:33:20,450 --> 00:33:22,050
for the paper shredding
industry.

605
00:33:22,610 --> 00:33:26,170
But the the great gentleman
Robert Johnson, who wrote the

606
00:33:26,170 --> 00:33:29,210
forward to this book, The
Insecurity of Everything, then

607
00:33:29,450 --> 00:33:33,210
revamped his standard about
eight years ago to include

608
00:33:33,210 --> 00:33:36,050
electronics.
And then he made it available to

609
00:33:36,050 --> 00:33:39,420
electronic recyclers around the
world and good electronic

610
00:33:39,420 --> 00:33:42,340
recyclers that are doing the
right thing with your data,

611
00:33:42,660 --> 00:33:44,860
signed up for it and got
certified to it and get

612
00:33:44,860 --> 00:33:48,340
recertified every year.
So your listeners and viewers

613
00:33:48,540 --> 00:33:53,660
should sign up for recyclers to
use in their local area that are

614
00:33:53,820 --> 00:33:59,540
either eastwards or R2 and NAID
certified to make sure that the

615
00:33:59,540 --> 00:34:03,480
data is being protected and
destroyed and also the

616
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:07,920
environmental standards are
being adhere to and the and the

617
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:09,760
environment is being protected
as well.

618
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:13,480
That's a great point because you
know I do a lot of third party

619
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:17,480
disposal audits for, you know
some of our clients and yeah, on

620
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,800
my day job this is my, this is
my moonlighting site here,

621
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:22,239
right.
So let's be honest.

622
00:34:22,639 --> 00:34:26,600
But but you know we do third
party disposal audits and we

623
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:30,040
look for that need certification
in R2, you know for all that you

624
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:31,800
scrap.
For e-waste, you know, recycling

625
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:35,880
vendors because our, our clients
want to know where the waste

626
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,760
going are they certified and
those are one of those, you

627
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:40,719
know, requirements that they
have to check the box.

628
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:45,360
So those are those are important
for for industry folks and for

629
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:46,840
just, you know, personal folks
too.

630
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,480
So that's really good.
I mean, well, what are some of

631
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:53,080
the the latest or most exciting
innovations you've seen that you

632
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:55,800
know, in the e-waste recycling,
recycling sector today?

633
00:34:56,000 --> 00:35:01,030
Yeah, that's a great question.
Where we're AI and robotics and

634
00:35:01,030 --> 00:35:03,550
more automation, that's really
where this industry is going.

635
00:35:03,830 --> 00:35:07,710
We, we started using AI and
robotics about five years ago.

636
00:35:08,030 --> 00:35:11,590
It's been tremendous because
it's helped us create cleaner

637
00:35:12,070 --> 00:35:14,470
waste streams and commodity
streams, which is terminology I

638
00:35:14,470 --> 00:35:18,110
know you understand for our, for
your listeners out there, you

639
00:35:18,110 --> 00:35:21,030
know the cleaner the commodity,
the cleaner the shredded steel,

640
00:35:21,030 --> 00:35:24,670
the cleaner the shredded plastic
or aluminum or copper, the more

641
00:35:24,670 --> 00:35:27,230
you're able to get for it from
the smelters around the world.

642
00:35:27,230 --> 00:35:32,910
So A I and robotics have been
able to help us create cleaner

643
00:35:32,910 --> 00:35:37,270
commodity streams, which have
created more value for ERI and

644
00:35:37,310 --> 00:35:40,990
and more automation as well,
which is great because it lets

645
00:35:40,990 --> 00:35:44,670
us speed up the processing and
take on more customers and more,

646
00:35:44,830 --> 00:35:46,390
more products.
And there's going to be more and

647
00:35:46,390 --> 00:35:49,510
more that happening in our
industry in the years to come

648
00:35:49,510 --> 00:35:51,870
and that's very hopeful for us.
No, that's good.

649
00:35:51,870 --> 00:35:54,710
So when you know with those type
of automation and innovation

650
00:35:54,710 --> 00:35:56,870
that you know your guys are
deploying, do you guys?

651
00:35:57,830 --> 00:36:00,670
Pretty much process all your,
you know, e-waste or do you use

652
00:36:00,670 --> 00:36:03,470
also other third party vendors
in the process?

653
00:36:03,590 --> 00:36:06,470
OK, it's great question.
We process everything ourselves

654
00:36:07,190 --> 00:36:09,510
in our own facilities in the
United States.

655
00:36:09,950 --> 00:36:14,430
Then all the commodities get
resold to smelters around the

656
00:36:14,430 --> 00:36:16,590
world, many of them which are
partners in our company.

657
00:36:16,590 --> 00:36:19,310
So Alcoa is an investor in our
company and they sit on our

658
00:36:19,310 --> 00:36:23,200
board LS Nico Copper, which is
the Coup family.

659
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:26,360
The founders of LG Electronics
own the second largest copper

660
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,680
smelter in South Korea.
So they they process all of our

661
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:34,080
copper and precious metals.
And then two years ago, JB

662
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:36,800
Straubel, the cofounder of Tesla
invested and he sits on our

663
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,030
board as well and he processes
all our lithium ion batteries.

664
00:36:40,270 --> 00:36:44,350
So there's we process
everything, separate everything

665
00:36:44,590 --> 00:36:49,630
and then sell those commodities
separated to the responsible

666
00:36:49,630 --> 00:36:52,750
smelter partners that we have in
the United States and around the

667
00:36:52,750 --> 00:36:54,470
world.
So that's the fun part of our

668
00:36:54,470 --> 00:36:57,710
business that nothing goes to a
landfill, the environment wins

669
00:36:57,710 --> 00:37:02,390
and all of those products go
back for beneficial reuse and so

670
00:37:02,590 --> 00:37:05,310
they they.
Checking all the sustainable

671
00:37:05,310 --> 00:37:07,830
circular economy boxes there,
John, That's amazing.

672
00:37:07,910 --> 00:37:09,350
That's fantastic.
I love that.

673
00:37:09,350 --> 00:37:11,950
And then having some like ALCO
on the board, even better.

674
00:37:11,950 --> 00:37:14,150
I mean you know they've got a
vested interest in making sure

675
00:37:14,510 --> 00:37:16,870
you know you guys are processing
this material and sending them

676
00:37:16,870 --> 00:37:18,510
good product.
That's right.

677
00:37:18,550 --> 00:37:21,070
And same thing with JB Strobel,
same thing with Ellis Nico, they

678
00:37:21,070 --> 00:37:23,910
all sit on our board.
And Ron Gonan who we we were

679
00:37:23,910 --> 00:37:27,230
talking about before we were on
the air, he also invested as

680
00:37:27,230 --> 00:37:29,190
well and he also sits on our
board.

681
00:37:29,190 --> 00:37:35,310
And so you have these really in
many ways iconic and visionary

682
00:37:35,310 --> 00:37:41,910
brands that have all exceeded
and and really excelled in their

683
00:37:41,910 --> 00:37:44,670
specialty spaces for many, many
years.

684
00:37:44,950 --> 00:37:48,670
And so it makes a little company
like ours, you know, relatively

685
00:37:48,670 --> 00:37:52,250
speaking a little company ours
get to have visibility and act

686
00:37:52,250 --> 00:37:54,930
like a big company because we
have some of the greatest minds

687
00:37:54,930 --> 00:37:56,970
in the world sitting on our
Board of Directors and that's

688
00:37:57,330 --> 00:38:00,210
that's been really one of the
trademarks for our success.

689
00:38:00,210 --> 00:38:02,650
You got blue chip support.
I mean that's the that's it,

690
00:38:02,730 --> 00:38:04,170
right?
Better than I could.

691
00:38:04,450 --> 00:38:07,530
You know and then tell, tell,
talk a little bit about where

692
00:38:07,530 --> 00:38:12,050
you see solar panel recycling.
I I see a huge opportunity in

693
00:38:12,050 --> 00:38:16,250
the industry in the next
10/15/20 years with solar panel

694
00:38:16,250 --> 00:38:17,810
recycling because let's think
about it.

695
00:38:18,450 --> 00:38:21,050
Solar panels are good for a
certain period of time and then

696
00:38:21,050 --> 00:38:23,690
they're going to have end of
life use because maybe the

697
00:38:23,690 --> 00:38:26,130
efficiency of them aren't is
good and things like that.

698
00:38:26,130 --> 00:38:29,770
I mean, you know talk about what
you guys are doing around solar

699
00:38:29,770 --> 00:38:31,970
panel recycling.
We are doing it already.

700
00:38:31,970 --> 00:38:34,130
We did R&D for about 7 years on
it.

701
00:38:34,130 --> 00:38:38,890
So basically our partnership
with Redwood sealed the deal on

702
00:38:38,890 --> 00:38:39,810
that.
What do I mean?

703
00:38:40,250 --> 00:38:44,760
We always have worked on putting
the solar panels through our

704
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,600
shredding and dismantling
processes of here at ER I, but

705
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:50,400
we ended up with what are called
meatballs.

706
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:53,400
You know what the meatball is at
the end, so it comes out of the

707
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:56,080
shredder, but it's still this
massive BLOB.

708
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:58,560
It's.
Not really the ideal piece.

709
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:01,240
Yeah, we didn't know what to do
with it, and the other smelters

710
00:39:01,240 --> 00:39:02,560
around the world really didn't
know.

711
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,520
But JB Strobel, being who he is
and his massive success and

712
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,680
engineering prowess, he figured
out what to do with it.

713
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:12,770
He takes those meatballs from us
and then he smelts them down and

714
00:39:12,770 --> 00:39:16,530
recovers other materials out of
them and then sells that also to

715
00:39:16,530 --> 00:39:19,250
the markets.
So solar panel recycling, as you

716
00:39:19,250 --> 00:39:23,770
said, is in its nascent stage
right now, but it's going to

717
00:39:23,770 --> 00:39:26,770
grow and it's going to be what
we think of one of the last with

718
00:39:26,770 --> 00:39:29,970
lithium ion batteries, one of
the last miles of responsible

719
00:39:30,010 --> 00:39:32,690
e-waste recycling.
Yeah, because all of those

720
00:39:32,690 --> 00:39:37,090
panels are made with raw
materials that have value like

721
00:39:37,090 --> 00:39:41,690
silver and aluminum and other.
Copper, copper, right.

722
00:39:41,690 --> 00:39:48,010
And and so each panel has kind
of a base value that you can you

723
00:39:48,010 --> 00:39:50,330
can generate some revenue off
of.

724
00:39:50,370 --> 00:39:53,850
And so how to do that properly
and maybe even know like what

725
00:39:53,850 --> 00:39:56,010
the value is of these products
when you when you buy them or

726
00:39:56,010 --> 00:39:59,050
recycle them, It would be great
to know that's 100%.

727
00:39:59,050 --> 00:40:02,290
And and as you point out, the
interesting thing is solar

728
00:40:02,290 --> 00:40:05,970
panels are really built to last
25 or 30 years and they will.

729
00:40:06,450 --> 00:40:09,810
But what's really happened when
you talk to the solar farm

730
00:40:09,810 --> 00:40:14,250
owners across the United States,
the technology improves so fast

731
00:40:14,250 --> 00:40:18,650
now, Shawn that there's a huge
ROI for switching them out every

732
00:40:18,650 --> 00:40:22,770
five to seven years and instead
of leaving them in for 30 years.

733
00:40:22,890 --> 00:40:26,490
So what happens to all those old
panels and that's that's the

734
00:40:26,490 --> 00:40:29,310
opportunity.
Well, and just let's, you know,

735
00:40:29,470 --> 00:40:32,310
let's dive in, just double click
on this whole solar field thing

736
00:40:32,310 --> 00:40:36,790
just a little bit cuz it's so
interesting, John, what if every

737
00:40:36,790 --> 00:40:41,790
residential property had a solar
panel, you know, array on their

738
00:40:41,790 --> 00:40:46,230
rooftop or something similar.
We would reduce climate change

739
00:40:46,230 --> 00:40:48,750
in a heartbeat, right, In a
heartbeat.

740
00:40:49,190 --> 00:40:52,550
And then you've got the, you
know the storage of the material

741
00:40:52,550 --> 00:40:54,950
or the of the energy that's
generated that we need to kind

742
00:40:54,950 --> 00:40:57,440
of solve and fix.
And you know companies like

743
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,080
Tesla and others are doing that,
which is great, but there's

744
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,560
others that are out there doing
this as well coming up with

745
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:06,920
solutions, what you know we, how
are we going to transition?

746
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:09,600
I mean, that's where I see, you
know, we really need to

747
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:13,720
transition as a society into
taking more advantage of these

748
00:41:13,720 --> 00:41:16,760
renewable energies.
That's exactly right.

749
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:21,120
And that's why guys like Ron
Gonen are thriving, because his

750
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:24,080
idea of starting to close Loop
fund about seven years ago or

751
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,030
so.
Was so ahead of times.

752
00:41:26,030 --> 00:41:30,470
Because really the idea is we
need to invest more in these

753
00:41:30,470 --> 00:41:33,830
renewables and make them more
ubiquitous to all of us.

754
00:41:33,830 --> 00:41:36,550
Not only, like you said,
knowledge of big businesses for

755
00:41:36,550 --> 00:41:39,590
their rooftops, but like you
said, if every household had

756
00:41:39,590 --> 00:41:43,470
this on, you know the we would,
we would change the world and

757
00:41:43,470 --> 00:41:45,910
that's our opportunity.
Yeah, absolutely.

758
00:41:45,910 --> 00:41:50,150
And then you're going to be in a
nice position to, let's think

759
00:41:50,150 --> 00:41:51,870
about it, right.
Right.

760
00:41:52,070 --> 00:41:54,470
Come on.
That's a little bit of a good

761
00:41:55,190 --> 00:41:59,150
happy accident at the end of the
at the end of the road, but one

762
00:41:59,150 --> 00:42:02,310
that we didn't plan on.
You know, when we went in, we

763
00:42:02,310 --> 00:42:05,030
were, we never were thinking
about lithium ion batteries.

764
00:42:05,030 --> 00:42:07,830
We never who would ever think
they would become, they would

765
00:42:07,830 --> 00:42:12,310
become embedded in ubiquitous to
small electronics.

766
00:42:12,510 --> 00:42:14,110
And then we weren't thinking
about solar panels.

767
00:42:14,150 --> 00:42:16,910
And by the way, we weren't
thinking about having Teslas.

768
00:42:17,190 --> 00:42:19,310
Client, but they're a client now
because think about when you

769
00:42:19,310 --> 00:42:24,830
return an EV car on lease or on
sale and all the data that it

770
00:42:24,830 --> 00:42:28,270
downloads on you, someone's got
to destroy the hard drives in.

771
00:42:28,270 --> 00:42:34,390
These opportunities are just so
varied that we were never even

772
00:42:34,390 --> 00:42:38,510
imagining 1718 years ago.
That's amazing, John, just,

773
00:42:38,510 --> 00:42:42,030
yeah, I mean the opportunities
to, you know think I need to

774
00:42:42,030 --> 00:42:52,570
invest in ER I this episode is.
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775
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That's www.pacelabs.com.
All right, so how is the

791
00:43:46,310 --> 00:43:49,470
Internet of Things going to
affect the production of e-waste

792
00:43:49,470 --> 00:43:52,790
and cybersecurity concerns?
I mean, every now we got smart

793
00:43:52,790 --> 00:43:57,430
cities, everything is like, I've
got ring, ring, doorbells at

794
00:43:57,430 --> 00:44:00,270
every corner of my house.
I mean, you know what?

795
00:44:00,980 --> 00:44:04,740
Well, and not only that, also
the the, the, the data, the the

796
00:44:04,940 --> 00:44:09,620
basically the, the data centers
that AWS and all these other

797
00:44:09,620 --> 00:44:12,020
great Microsoft and all these
other amazing brands have.

798
00:44:12,380 --> 00:44:16,060
I never thought we were going to
be recycling the server farms

799
00:44:16,220 --> 00:44:19,500
that are not being built now in
Moss.

800
00:44:19,740 --> 00:44:22,700
And so every opportunity is out
there.

801
00:44:22,820 --> 00:44:26,660
Like you said, Ring Nest.
These Aura Rings are Garmin

802
00:44:26,660 --> 00:44:28,380
watches that you and I are both
wearing.

803
00:44:28,580 --> 00:44:31,420
I mean.
This stuff has to go somewhere

804
00:44:31,780 --> 00:44:35,300
and both on the data side and
the protection side and on the

805
00:44:35,300 --> 00:44:38,860
Environmental Protection side
and that's the real opportunity.

806
00:44:38,980 --> 00:44:41,660
So really it's a two step just
like what you do for your

807
00:44:41,660 --> 00:44:45,900
business, your day job, Sean,
first it's education and then

808
00:44:45,900 --> 00:44:48,460
it's action.
And that's really the two step

809
00:44:48,460 --> 00:44:50,980
that we engage in every day here
at ERI.

810
00:44:51,140 --> 00:44:54,440
We educate the marketplace.
And at the end of the day, most

811
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:57,200
big corporations and most people
wanted to.

812
00:44:57,240 --> 00:44:59,360
And people run.
These corporations want to do

813
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:01,520
the right thing.
And then the business comes your

814
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:03,040
way.
And the truth is, as you and I

815
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:06,240
discussed earlier, it's not a 0
sum game.

816
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:09,160
I want other entrepreneurs to
come into space in the United

817
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:10,640
States.
Around the world.

818
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:14,120
Shame on us that we're at 83%
not being recycled.

819
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:17,080
We should be able to, we should
get that number, reverse that

820
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:19,360
number.
They should only be 17% not

821
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:23,040
being recycled and 83% being
responsibly recycled.

822
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:27,160
Yeah, no, I agree.
And I think the more education

823
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:30,760
will get there, I think some
laws in place would be helpful

824
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:33,080
too.
I mean if the the Congress could

825
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:36,320
get off of their you know
political fights and and and

826
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:40,330
come down you know and meet in
the middle let's get something

827
00:45:40,330 --> 00:45:43,690
done because you know this is
becoming a problem for you know

828
00:45:44,850 --> 00:45:47,490
our country.
I mean well what can people do

829
00:45:47,490 --> 00:45:50,570
or what can people and or
businesses do to be more

830
00:45:50,570 --> 00:45:53,690
responsible in terms of
recycling these electronics

831
00:45:53,970 --> 00:45:55,610
their data protection and end of
life.

832
00:45:55,610 --> 00:45:58,730
I mean, you know, like if you've
got these products like I have

833
00:45:58,770 --> 00:46:02,900
cell phones and and some other,
you know, computers and like in

834
00:46:02,900 --> 00:46:07,300
my local community we have like
an electronic recycling depot

835
00:46:07,300 --> 00:46:10,900
that you can drop things off at.
But I don't know where it's

836
00:46:10,900 --> 00:46:13,780
going.
Well, that's the key you it's

837
00:46:13,820 --> 00:46:17,860
it's it's up to us as
responsible citizens to ask our

838
00:46:17,860 --> 00:46:21,780
public servants and they'll tell
you if they made they made wise

839
00:46:21,780 --> 00:46:23,820
decisions, they build, they'll
be transparent.

840
00:46:25,410 --> 00:46:29,090
You have to ask him who is The
Who is your chosen vendor for

841
00:46:29,250 --> 00:46:32,370
your city or municipality.
So that way you can have Peace

842
00:46:32,370 --> 00:46:34,130
of Mind.
Because if you if they won't

843
00:46:34,130 --> 00:46:38,330
share that information for you,
I would I would say do not use

844
00:46:38,570 --> 00:46:41,930
that local opportunity.
Now you have others in your

845
00:46:41,930 --> 00:46:45,490
community is shown in Indiana
and around the nation.

846
00:46:46,020 --> 00:46:50,660
Best Buy uses only responsible
recyclers to the standards we

847
00:46:50,660 --> 00:46:55,380
discussed earlier as the
staples, as does Costco and many

848
00:46:55,380 --> 00:46:58,140
other great brands.
So there are massive and great

849
00:46:58,140 --> 00:47:02,660
opportunities out there and many
cities are doing the right thing

850
00:47:02,660 --> 00:47:05,820
and that have great leaders and
great public servants making

851
00:47:05,820 --> 00:47:09,620
good decisions.
But it's up to us to ask 1st and

852
00:47:09,620 --> 00:47:14,150
not make a bad mistake.
Well, what about your eyes?

853
00:47:14,150 --> 00:47:16,750
Mail back program?
That's true.

854
00:47:16,750 --> 00:47:19,630
I'm glad you put that up.
I'm glad you put that up.

855
00:47:19,670 --> 00:47:23,230
You can go to our website and if
you don't find a local

856
00:47:23,230 --> 00:47:26,390
opportunity, you can actually
order a box.

857
00:47:26,550 --> 00:47:29,510
We have 17 sizes of boxes that
can be.

858
00:47:29,630 --> 00:47:32,790
You can just pay for it online.
The box will be delivered right

859
00:47:32,790 --> 00:47:36,670
to your house or small business.
Fill it up at your own leisure,

860
00:47:36,670 --> 00:47:39,630
on your own timeline with all
your old electronics.

861
00:47:39,990 --> 00:47:44,810
Print the label.
And then just e-mail UPS and UPS

862
00:47:44,810 --> 00:47:48,010
will pick it up and deliver it
to one of our 12 facilities in

863
00:47:48,010 --> 00:47:50,410
eight states across the nation.
We cover every zip code

864
00:47:50,650 --> 00:47:54,370
including Alaska and Hawaii.
So if if that's the way you want

865
00:47:54,370 --> 00:47:58,050
to do it, then you could use our
services wherever you sit in

866
00:47:58,050 --> 00:47:59,850
the, in the, in the United
States.

867
00:47:59,850 --> 00:48:02,850
Well, that would give you, you
know, more users, a piece of

868
00:48:02,850 --> 00:48:05,160
mind in my opinion.
Right.

869
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:06,880
Right.
It's like, I know John's going

870
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:08,600
to take care of this properly,
you know.

871
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:11,960
So I'm, I'm gonna send it to
John, you know, let's go there.

872
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:14,280
That's the only job.
Yeah, you.

873
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:16,520
And this is only what we do and
what we love it.

874
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:19,400
So I would love people to use
our box for when we started in

875
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:22,600
2012.
And every year Double S in size

876
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:26,640
because more and more people are
very comfortable now with boxes

877
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:29,720
being delivered to their homes,
obviously with at with Amazon or

878
00:48:29,720 --> 00:48:33,560
Walmart and DoorDash and all
these other great delivery

879
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:36,480
services.
Now it's also very easy to send

880
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:39,680
boxes away from your home or
small business and and we make

881
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:42,960
it easy for you.
So you know some of these mail,

882
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:47,560
do you have mailbox for lamps
and other things too I mean?

883
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:50,080
Batteries, lamps will handle it
all.

884
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:53,840
I think I need to get my some of
my employees to reach out to you

885
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:57,480
about setting up some some
contracts that we can work with

886
00:48:57,480 --> 00:49:00,240
you guys too because I they use
some other providers, but I

887
00:49:00,240 --> 00:49:02,360
think you might be somebody they
need to connect with Love.

888
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:06,130
To do it and you connect them.
I'll connect them well.

889
00:49:06,130 --> 00:49:09,010
Tell us a little bit about what
you see going on in the industry

890
00:49:09,010 --> 00:49:11,890
in the next 5 to 10 years.
Yeah, the industry is going to

891
00:49:11,890 --> 00:49:14,010
grow, there's no doubt because
there's going to be a whole new

892
00:49:14,010 --> 00:49:15,770
wave of entrepreneurs that come
in, Shawn.

893
00:49:16,090 --> 00:49:21,010
And listen, that 83 percent is
is is ripe for the taking and

894
00:49:21,010 --> 00:49:25,570
there's a new generation that
are so excited to help this.

895
00:49:26,010 --> 00:49:29,210
This generational shift from a
linear to circular economy

896
00:49:29,210 --> 00:49:32,410
happen, and that's what really
is great for you guys like you

897
00:49:32,410 --> 00:49:35,050
and me, because we were The
Pioneers out there, as you said

898
00:49:35,050 --> 00:49:38,970
back in old Five, starting this
whole stuff, the the OG's and

899
00:49:38,970 --> 00:49:41,210
The Pioneers.
But there's a new generation

900
00:49:41,210 --> 00:49:43,170
behind us and they're on fire
for this.

901
00:49:43,170 --> 00:49:45,610
They're studying it in college,
where when you and I went to

902
00:49:45,610 --> 00:49:48,330
college, we didn't have that.
We didn't have it didn't exist.

903
00:49:49,350 --> 00:49:52,470
Sustainability didn't exist.
You can get you can get degrees

904
00:49:52,470 --> 00:49:54,030
in that now.
That's right.

905
00:49:54,230 --> 00:49:57,390
So they're they're graduating
and they're they're like gung ho

906
00:49:57,390 --> 00:50:00,430
to come in and the best I could
do is I got a biology degree.

907
00:50:00,430 --> 00:50:02,310
So I mean, I was pretty close,
right, You know?

908
00:50:02,430 --> 00:50:05,350
I was Poly size, so that was it.
Wasn't that close to anything,

909
00:50:05,350 --> 00:50:08,310
but it it got me to where I have
to go anyway.

910
00:50:08,310 --> 00:50:10,390
So yeah, you were figured out
people.

911
00:50:11,350 --> 00:50:14,070
But the truth is that, like you
said, they're graduating with

912
00:50:14,070 --> 00:50:16,790
sustainability degrees and
they're excited as heck to come

913
00:50:16,790 --> 00:50:19,420
on in.
And take Torch from us and keep

914
00:50:19,420 --> 00:50:21,340
moving forward.
And I really do think that's

915
00:50:21,340 --> 00:50:23,500
where it's going to go.
Yeah, I agree.

916
00:50:23,500 --> 00:50:26,500
I agree.
Well, you know, hey, what advice

917
00:50:26,500 --> 00:50:28,780
do you have for our audience
when it comes to, you know,

918
00:50:28,780 --> 00:50:31,300
recycling electronics?
Two things.

919
00:50:31,660 --> 00:50:35,780
One thing is first of all, you
know when you listen to the

920
00:50:35,780 --> 00:50:39,060
media and you listen to other
folks, everyone likes to point a

921
00:50:39,060 --> 00:50:40,580
finger.
Unfortunately, in this country,

922
00:50:40,580 --> 00:50:43,820
Sean and Vilify one of the
stakeholders, the manufacturers

923
00:50:43,820 --> 00:50:46,140
or the retailers or the
consumers.

924
00:50:46,340 --> 00:50:49,230
And the truth is.
Those days of vilification are

925
00:50:49,230 --> 00:50:52,510
so old and so done.
This is the time that we should

926
00:50:52,510 --> 00:50:56,950
all just be working together to
come up with ecosystem solutions

927
00:50:57,190 --> 00:51:00,750
that are good for the everyone,
it's good for the planet and

928
00:51:00,750 --> 00:51:03,150
good for all the stakeholders,
because we're all stakeholders

929
00:51:03,150 --> 00:51:05,650
in the planet Earth.
And then then to just us

930
00:51:05,650 --> 00:51:09,130
singularly, we can all do more.
That goes from myself and my

931
00:51:09,130 --> 00:51:11,290
household.
Even though we have solar and we

932
00:51:11,290 --> 00:51:15,290
have EV cars and you know, we
try to walk the walk, we can all

933
00:51:15,290 --> 00:51:18,570
do more.
And it's our responsibility to

934
00:51:18,570 --> 00:51:21,690
do a better job, to take care of
this Mother Earth that we all

935
00:51:21,690 --> 00:51:24,410
were lucky enough to be born
into and that we're going to

936
00:51:24,410 --> 00:51:26,730
leave behind for our children
and grandchildren one day.

937
00:51:26,970 --> 00:51:28,970
Let's just do more and do it
together.

938
00:51:28,970 --> 00:51:32,050
Not vilify anybody, but bring us
all together, get all the

939
00:51:32,050 --> 00:51:34,860
stakeholders.
To work Better Together and make

940
00:51:34,860 --> 00:51:36,300
the world a better place
together.

941
00:51:36,340 --> 00:51:39,500
And man, if that's all you
remember from this podcast, then

942
00:51:39,500 --> 00:51:41,820
then that's that's a good
message to leave people with.

943
00:51:42,100 --> 00:51:45,340
Yeah, absolutely.
You know I always closed my my

944
00:51:45,340 --> 00:51:49,380
podcast with you know make a
positive impact in someone's

945
00:51:49,380 --> 00:51:52,340
life today.
And and you know John, you know

946
00:51:52,340 --> 00:51:54,780
what you've done is come on the
show and you're making positive

947
00:51:54,780 --> 00:51:57,500
impact in my life.
Just having you on the show is

948
00:51:57,500 --> 00:52:00,820
great, but other people
listening is is awesome because

949
00:52:00,820 --> 00:52:05,140
they're going to read your book
and let's talk about this.

950
00:52:05,140 --> 00:52:07,620
So we'd like to give a few of
these away to some listeners if

951
00:52:07,620 --> 00:52:08,900
we could.
Is there something we could do

952
00:52:08,900 --> 00:52:10,940
today, you know?
Or at least get that out?

953
00:52:10,940 --> 00:52:13,100
There, they write to you.
You send us their name.

954
00:52:13,100 --> 00:52:15,860
If they send their name and
address where they want it

955
00:52:15,860 --> 00:52:18,260
mailed to, and they send it to
you, you send us that list,

956
00:52:18,260 --> 00:52:20,480
Sean.
All of your listeners.

957
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:24,240
I don't care if fifty of them or
1000 of them e-mail you.

958
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:27,480
I'll get them all a free copy of
the book within the next 30 days

959
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:29,960
so they can look at it
themselves and they can make

960
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:32,560
their own informed decisions.
That's amazing.

961
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:34,800
You know ET Nation, you better
listen up.

962
00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:37,800
It's got a great opportunity to
get a new book.

963
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:41,080
It's amazing, great book.
It's a great read and you'll

964
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:42,970
learn something and you know
what?

965
00:52:42,970 --> 00:52:45,490
You'll learn something about
John and his team and what

966
00:52:45,490 --> 00:52:48,570
they're doing to really help
solve this electronic waste

967
00:52:48,770 --> 00:52:52,170
problem we have in society and
how he's, you know, creating a

968
00:52:52,170 --> 00:52:54,250
circular economy is part of the
business.

969
00:52:54,250 --> 00:52:57,250
It's a great and he's addressing
ESG and sustainability all at

970
00:52:57,250 --> 00:52:58,170
one time.
It's great.

971
00:52:59,130 --> 00:53:01,330
John, thank you for coming onto
the show today.

972
00:53:01,330 --> 00:53:03,130
I couldn't be more happy to have
you on.

973
00:53:03,290 --> 00:53:06,900
It's been a great conversation
and I'm sure we will stay in

974
00:53:06,900 --> 00:53:11,020
touch over the time and let's
let's continue the the impact

975
00:53:11,020 --> 00:53:15,140
that we're making in the Society
of with environmental messages

976
00:53:15,140 --> 00:53:18,140
like this, that's great.
Sean, continue success with your

977
00:53:18,140 --> 00:53:20,900
podcast and with your day job
business as well.

978
00:53:21,140 --> 00:53:23,460
It's people like you that make
the world a better place, and

979
00:53:23,460 --> 00:53:25,460
I'm honored just to participate
with you.

980
00:53:26,260 --> 00:53:28,060
That's great.
Well, we really appreciate you

981
00:53:28,060 --> 00:53:29,900
coming on and our listeners do
too.

982
00:53:36,650 --> 00:53:39,530
I want to thank our guest John
Shakirian for coming on to the

983
00:53:39,530 --> 00:53:41,850
show today.
If you want to learn more about

984
00:53:41,890 --> 00:53:44,250
ERI and the services they
provide, you can go to

985
00:53:44,250 --> 00:53:49,580
www.eridirect.com.
You can also receive a free copy

986
00:53:49,580 --> 00:53:52,740
of John's new book, The
Insecurity of Everything, by

987
00:53:52,740 --> 00:53:55,780
signing up for my newsletter by
going to my website at

988
00:53:55,780 --> 00:54:00,380
www.seankgrady.com.
If you want to follow John via

989
00:54:00,380 --> 00:54:03,740
LinkedIn, I've also put a link
to his contact information on my

990
00:54:03,740 --> 00:54:06,820
website to listen to future
environmental transformation

991
00:54:06,820 --> 00:54:08,380
podcast.
You can check us out on Apple

992
00:54:08,380 --> 00:54:11,500
Podcasts, Spotify, Google
Podcasts, and other podcast

993
00:54:11,500 --> 00:54:16,580
networks, or better yet from my
website at www.seankgrady.com.

994
00:54:17,430 --> 00:54:20,030
And you can also follow me on
Instagram or the Environmental

995
00:54:20,030 --> 00:54:23,990
Transformation Podcast Facebook.
Page If you enjoyed the episode,

996
00:54:23,990 --> 00:54:25,830
don't forget to subscribe and
tell your friends.

997
00:54:25,830 --> 00:54:28,670
We'd also love to hear feedback
from the ET Nation about this

998
00:54:28,670 --> 00:54:32,270
episode and any future podcast
topics you'd like me to cover.

999
00:54:32,790 --> 00:54:35,830
Well, thanks for listening and
until next time, make a positive

1000
00:54:35,830 --> 00:54:37,830
impact at someone's life today.