Greenwashing; What is it and how to spot it, with Nikos Avlonas, CEO of CSE

1
00:00:03,300 --> 00:00:05,700
But also, that's why you have a
history ratings.

2
00:00:05,700 --> 00:00:08,700
You know, there is two ratings
and where many types of is

3
00:00:08,700 --> 00:00:10,900
de-rating.
They provide a third party

4
00:00:10,900 --> 00:00:14,500
evidence about the rating of
your company.

5
00:00:15,100 --> 00:00:20,600
So when in third-party rate your
company, usually they get

6
00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,500
evidence about the level of the
writing.

7
00:00:23,500 --> 00:00:28,100
So one way is the ESG ratings
another way.

8
00:00:28,100 --> 00:00:31,900
Is screening.
So a Lot of investment funds,

9
00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,200
pension fund.
For example, we have ESG

10
00:00:34,500 --> 00:00:37,800
screening themes where they you
know, they do a lot of due

11
00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:42,300
diligence about the words
actually doing and what you're

12
00:00:42,300 --> 00:00:45,200
not.
So we have all the data right on

13
00:00:45,500 --> 00:00:48,200
back and it's important of
course before they take an

14
00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:52,800
equity or invest in the company.
So we know more information and

15
00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:55,400
there's so many other
initiatives like, third-party

16
00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:58,700
check third party audit, you
know over so many different

17
00:00:58,700 --> 00:01:11,000
tools out there.
Welcome to the environmental

18
00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:14,100
transformation podcast where we
talk with industry leaders,

19
00:01:14,300 --> 00:01:16,700
climate Champions and
sustainability professionals,

20
00:01:16,700 --> 00:01:18,700
who are making an impact in
their businesses.

21
00:01:18,700 --> 00:01:22,300
Today, each leader solving
complex challenges and provide

22
00:01:22,300 --> 00:01:25,500
Solutions within the respective
areas of expertise.

23
00:01:25,500 --> 00:01:33,900
And here's our host, Sean Grady.
Welcome to the environmental

24
00:01:33,900 --> 00:01:36,700
transformation podcast.
I'm your host, Sean Grady and

25
00:01:36,700 --> 00:01:38,700
today's guest is Nicolas
vilanis.

26
00:01:38,700 --> 00:01:40,900
He is the CEO of the center of
sustainability.

27
00:01:40,900 --> 00:01:42,100
Next.
Lentz how you doing?

28
00:01:42,100 --> 00:01:46,200
Nico is morning.
Thanks on for the kind

29
00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,800
invitation or more time.
It's always a pleasure meeting

30
00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:53,600
you and Sir more insights about
what's happening on

31
00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:55,800
sustainability, work.
This is great.

32
00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:57,700
Yeah, no.
And you know what to our

33
00:01:57,700 --> 00:02:00,500
listeners want to wish everybody
a Happy New Year.

34
00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:03,400
We are We're starting the new
year off, right?

35
00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:07,200
We've got some great topics and
interviews coming, but today's

36
00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:12,300
topic is greenwashing and what
is greenwashing and and what,

37
00:02:12,300 --> 00:02:15,900
how do you spot it, you know,
what are the challenges with

38
00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:17,600
companies?
That's what we want to get into

39
00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:21,700
today, so I couldn't think of a
better guest Niko's, then you to

40
00:02:21,700 --> 00:02:25,000
come and help break down
greenwashing for our listeners,

41
00:02:25,700 --> 00:02:28,700
especially as it revolves
around, you know, sustainability

42
00:02:28,700 --> 00:02:32,600
reporting, and things like that
for companies, and Let's dive in

43
00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:35,500
and talk about greenwashing and
give our listeners a little bit

44
00:02:35,500 --> 00:02:37,400
more about.
You know what it is?

45
00:02:37,700 --> 00:02:41,700
But before I do briefly just
give the listeners a bit of

46
00:02:41,700 --> 00:02:45,100
background on who you are for
the new listeners, who may be do

47
00:02:45,100 --> 00:02:47,500
not know you Niko's and what you
do with.

48
00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:51,100
Yeah, thank you so much.
Founder and president of the

49
00:02:51,100 --> 00:02:53,100
center for sustainability and
Excellency.

50
00:02:53,100 --> 00:02:57,700
SE we are a global leaders in
educating c-suite Executives,

51
00:02:57,700 --> 00:02:59,100
and sustainability
professionals.

52
00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:01,700
We have trained over 8,000
students.

53
00:03:01,900 --> 00:03:05,500
Professional so far that
represents the ninety percent of

54
00:03:05,500 --> 00:03:10,000
Fortune. 500 firms in 90
countries, five continents and

55
00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:12,900
more or less most of the
government's in this countries

56
00:03:13,700 --> 00:03:20,500
so we qualified professionals to
play the role of stability and

57
00:03:20,500 --> 00:03:23,700
make the change of the same
time.

58
00:03:23,700 --> 00:03:26,700
We do a lot of research on
sustainability and ESG issues,

59
00:03:26,700 --> 00:03:31,800
especially in North America and
that we always try to do.

60
00:03:31,900 --> 00:03:36,400
Fi what are the key trends on
sustainability how he has Z and

61
00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:41,000
profitability are get connected
and of course we provide

62
00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:45,100
services consulting services to
Fortune 500 companies in North

63
00:03:45,100 --> 00:03:47,800
American bird as the globe.
That's great.

64
00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:51,700
Well, thanks for giving us and
our listeners, a bit of

65
00:03:52,100 --> 00:03:57,900
background on CSE and let's talk
a little bit about, you know,

66
00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:00,900
this greenwashing, let's break
down what greenwashing really

67
00:04:00,900 --> 00:04:03,000
is.
I most Most people listening may

68
00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:05,300
know, but let's let's let's
break it down for the listeners.

69
00:04:05,300 --> 00:04:06,700
It might be a little new to the
topic.

70
00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:11,300
Yeah, it's really easy to Define
greenwashing because it's about

71
00:04:11,300 --> 00:04:16,300
the misleading consumers.
And you know, not only consumers

72
00:04:16,300 --> 00:04:22,700
investors clients, any kind of
stakeholder on a green aspects

73
00:04:22,700 --> 00:04:28,300
of the product or a company.
So that is about greenwashing

74
00:04:28,900 --> 00:04:31,700
and this about misleading is
about cheating.

75
00:04:32,900 --> 00:04:37,000
Yes, it's like basically saying
you're you're you're doing,

76
00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:39,600
you're selling a product that
might be green but it's not

77
00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:41,900
right or you're doing
environmental practices with

78
00:04:41,900 --> 00:04:45,400
your company to say your
sustainable but you're not

79
00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:48,600
right?
So it's that misleading

80
00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:53,600
misrepresenting actual practices
or products you're selling

81
00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:55,400
services right now.
Let me give you an example

82
00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:57,600
showing for example.
Exxon Mobil.

83
00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:01,700
And Chevron vert considered to
be one of the climate leaders by

84
00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:07,100
Several magazines and they get
several Awards, but it has been

85
00:05:07,100 --> 00:05:12,600
in the defined identified as
greengrocers, because only 17%

86
00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:16,800
of their Investments is a
renewable energy, okay?

87
00:05:17,300 --> 00:05:20,500
So you can see immediately that,
you know, how you can be a

88
00:05:20,500 --> 00:05:24,200
climate change leader and the
same time you contribute to

89
00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:27,700
climate crisis, it's it's you
know.

90
00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:30,100
Yeah.
Right and I think I think for

91
00:05:30,100 --> 00:05:32,500
some companies like that and
then the Energy sector.

92
00:05:32,500 --> 00:05:36,800
There's a bit of some challenges
for them because, you know,

93
00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:41,200
their Core Business is
generating energy and supporting

94
00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:43,700
the society with the products,
right?

95
00:05:43,700 --> 00:05:47,700
They have to do that because we
can't get off of the products

96
00:05:47,700 --> 00:05:50,300
that they're producing because
it's, you know, we've been so

97
00:05:50,300 --> 00:05:52,700
dependent upon it.
So they're kind of a catch-22 a

98
00:05:52,707 --> 00:05:56,400
bit, but they're also trying to
make a change to be more

99
00:05:56,700 --> 00:05:59,600
environmentally friendly to.
So I think that's a struggle,

100
00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:00,800
right?
Yeah.

101
00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:02,700
There's some didn't come.
When it's better than new green

102
00:06:02,700 --> 00:06:05,200
Boston.
For example, Unilever, we, you

103
00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:10,900
know, we all know Unilever is
that giant, the support any kind

104
00:06:10,900 --> 00:06:14,500
of initiatives against, you
know, plastic pollution.

105
00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:18,400
And at the same time, Reuters
recently identified, that we're

106
00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:24,600
doing lobbies loving in
third-party countries to allow

107
00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:27,500
single use plastic.
Wow.

108
00:06:27,500 --> 00:06:29,100
Yeah.
Against their interests.

109
00:06:29,100 --> 00:06:34,400
So you can see you know how On
behavior and communication is,

110
00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:39,200
it's not involved with the
actual actions, you know?

111
00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:41,900
Every company service is also
misleading, you know.

112
00:06:42,300 --> 00:06:45,000
I'm not telling you the truth.
I'm lying to you.

113
00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:48,500
That's pretty well.
When we talk about some, you

114
00:06:48,500 --> 00:06:52,500
know, ways that companies are
knowingly misleading, you know,

115
00:06:52,500 --> 00:06:56,700
consumers, let's dive into how
they do this a bit, you know,

116
00:06:56,700 --> 00:06:59,200
like what are some of the
strategies I think that probably

117
00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:04,100
companies take to to mislead
Yeah, so first of all, the

118
00:07:04,100 --> 00:07:07,400
market theories of the company
including the marketing

119
00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:10,500
agencies, right there, not only
external collaborators.

120
00:07:10,500 --> 00:07:14,400
We're going to attract
consumers, of course, and make

121
00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:17,500
products more appealing.
That's their job made.

122
00:07:17,500 --> 00:07:19,100
Everybody wants to be green
these days.

123
00:07:19,100 --> 00:07:21,200
So, they're capitalizing on,
hey, it's a green product,

124
00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:24,700
right?
Green is appealing and nobody

125
00:07:24,700 --> 00:07:29,500
cares about the statements.
They do are accurate or are

126
00:07:29,500 --> 00:07:33,000
misleading or not.
Gray but lying.

127
00:07:33,300 --> 00:07:37,200
So we do that through packaging,
you know information, we provide

128
00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:41,500
food, packaging for information,
we provide them ads through

129
00:07:41,500 --> 00:07:44,400
social media, through videos for
so many.

130
00:07:44,500 --> 00:07:49,000
They use any kind of
communication channel to do

131
00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:51,700
brainwashing.
And there are two types of green

132
00:07:51,700 --> 00:07:55,700
moss in there, the intentional
greenwashing and the, it's also

133
00:07:55,700 --> 00:07:59,600
the unintentional greenwashing.
So, there's always two.

134
00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,600
I would say that the vast
majority Authority is the

135
00:08:02,608 --> 00:08:04,900
intentional gotcha, gotcha,
right?

136
00:08:04,900 --> 00:08:08,700
So marketing is a thing but like
how about greenwashing and say

137
00:08:08,700 --> 00:08:13,100
their sustainability reporting?
Or I mean that's more of a

138
00:08:13,108 --> 00:08:16,500
direct like level.
Yes, this is completely

139
00:08:16,500 --> 00:08:18,600
intentional.
So when we're talking about this

140
00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:22,600
level it's a and intentional.
So we're talking about

141
00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:27,500
organizations that they are, you
know communicate that they

142
00:08:27,500 --> 00:08:31,500
comply with particular standards
for stability reporting.

143
00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:34,799
About Waste Management about
greenhouse gas emissions

144
00:08:34,799 --> 00:08:37,799
reduction, and so on.
But at the end of the story,

145
00:08:37,799 --> 00:08:41,299
they don't actually do that and
they don't receive any

146
00:08:41,299 --> 00:08:45,000
third-party check or assessments
over his lack of evidence.

147
00:08:46,300 --> 00:08:51,300
It seems to me that we would be
a pretty challenge for most

148
00:08:51,300 --> 00:08:56,600
companies especially today, when
most big corporations are

149
00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:00,300
needing to really provide
sustainability reporting, but I

150
00:09:00,300 --> 00:09:04,200
think the the ability of too To
get their hands on the data,

151
00:09:04,300 --> 00:09:06,900
right to properly summarize.
It guys, got to be kind of

152
00:09:06,900 --> 00:09:09,900
challenging itself if they're
just starting out, right?

153
00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:11,500
Absolutely.
Yes.

154
00:09:11,700 --> 00:09:15,400
And that's why we have AC rating
providers but the what they do

155
00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:19,400
is that they check the data, we
check the evidence of this data

156
00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:23,000
and then they decide about the
rating of a particular company

157
00:09:23,500 --> 00:09:27,300
and and, and this is truly
important because you can really

158
00:09:27,300 --> 00:09:31,200
clarify, if there is true
evidence or this is, you know,

159
00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:33,700
just for munication with no
verification.

160
00:09:33,900 --> 00:09:38,300
And this is the difference
between reality and green goes

161
00:09:38,300 --> 00:09:45,300
in or manipulation.
Hey, have you been looking to

162
00:09:45,300 --> 00:09:47,600
skill up and become a certified
sustainability?

163
00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:49,900
Professional.
I've had been wondering where to

164
00:09:49,900 --> 00:09:51,700
start.
Well, the center for

165
00:09:51,700 --> 00:09:54,800
sustainability and Excellence
offers in person and online

166
00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:57,100
certified professional
development programs.

167
00:09:57,100 --> 00:10:00,800
On topics such as sustainability
and corporate responsibility,

168
00:10:01,100 --> 00:10:04,300
sustainable development and
circular economy in global

169
00:10:04,300 --> 00:10:05,900
reporting initiative.
Standards.

170
00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:08,900
If you want to maximize your
company's impact and become

171
00:10:08,900 --> 00:10:11,300
qualified with the latest
knowledge in the field.

172
00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:16,000
Old check out cse's website for
more information on courses, and

173
00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,100
cost to become a certified
sustainability.

174
00:10:18,100 --> 00:10:22,900
Professional at www.csiro.au,
net dot org.

175
00:10:22,900 --> 00:10:26,900
That's www.csiro.au, net dot
org.

176
00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:34,500
You know, when this this occurs
in companies, you know, got

177
00:10:34,500 --> 00:10:38,400
imagine, you know, especially
when it's knowingly happening,

178
00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:41,700
you know, who's typically
responsible for this this Of

179
00:10:41,700 --> 00:10:46,000
accurate reporting, either the
sustainability process, or the

180
00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:47,700
product benefits of the
environment.

181
00:10:47,700 --> 00:10:51,900
The mean, who ultimately is
responsible for this mysterious

182
00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:56,800
responsibility for were
departing, is to the CEO of a

183
00:10:56,808 --> 00:10:59,300
company.
It's straightforward.

184
00:10:59,900 --> 00:11:02,900
So at the top, I mean, that's
the bottom line, if he is not,

185
00:11:02,900 --> 00:11:06,500
or she is not connected or
invested into the operations, at

186
00:11:06,500 --> 00:11:08,400
a granular level in a sense,
right?

187
00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,800
Just to know, and I'm sure that
they've got deputy He's so to

188
00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:14,900
speak that are managing these
aspects of their business, but

189
00:11:15,300 --> 00:11:18,400
they need to know that they can
rely on those people in a way

190
00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:21,300
that this information is
accurate because their stamp of

191
00:11:21,300 --> 00:11:25,500
approval on it.
So to speak is yeah.

192
00:11:25,500 --> 00:11:27,300
Is what Valerie companies?
Yeah.

193
00:11:27,300 --> 00:11:28,400
What they're doing.
Right?

194
00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:30,100
Yeah.
And there's a risk that can

195
00:11:30,100 --> 00:11:32,700
really affect its company
reputation and also its

196
00:11:32,700 --> 00:11:35,900
reputation things clients, which
is, you know, it's going to be

197
00:11:35,900 --> 00:11:38,800
significant risk to button.
We have seen several cases

198
00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:42,500
happening like that, where they
see, obviously is not the word,

199
00:11:42,900 --> 00:11:47,600
but at the end is his, or her
responsibility to be aware about

200
00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:52,300
what's happening and about the
validity of the data and the

201
00:11:52,300 --> 00:11:55,300
transparency, you know, the
level of Parents about the

202
00:11:55,300 --> 00:11:59,200
disclosures, they're actually
providing to the public and

203
00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:02,000
returning about listed
Community, right, where we have

204
00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:06,600
a lot of responsibilities to
their shareholders to investors.

205
00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:09,600
So it's it's it's really
important there.

206
00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,800
Well, let's talk about the
reputational risk of some of

207
00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,200
these companies that they get
caught up in greenwashing.

208
00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:21,500
I mean, I was recently looking
online and just reading some

209
00:12:21,500 --> 00:12:25,100
articles, but, you know, Walmart
recently was Find about, you

210
00:12:25,100 --> 00:12:28,900
know, two million, three million
dollars coals, which is like a

211
00:12:28,900 --> 00:12:31,200
clothing store.
They recently got fined about

212
00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:33,800
two and a half, I mean, by the
FTC, right?

213
00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:37,700
So for misleading consumers, so
talk about, you know, this is

214
00:12:37,700 --> 00:12:41,900
real, you know, fraud so to
speak in a way, right?

215
00:12:42,700 --> 00:12:44,600
Yeah.
I mean, to be honest, in order

216
00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:48,000
to avoid greenwashing, you there
are two aspects, you need,

217
00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:52,000
consumers, education.
And and now everyone is you need

218
00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:56,300
very clear and And
straightforward legislation

219
00:12:56,300 --> 00:13:01,300
against that from FTC from SEC,
from all these.

220
00:13:01,300 --> 00:13:04,400
You know I didn't see the need
to be very straightforward about

221
00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:08,200
the rules and what you should
avoid and this is not

222
00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:12,700
necessarily happening right now.
So you know, million dollars

223
00:13:12,700 --> 00:13:18,600
company can easily declare
something and it could be green

224
00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:22,800
washing and the SEC role should
be, you know, to penalize this

225
00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:25,800
company.
So the risk here for companies

226
00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:29,900
is obviously it's this, you
know, potentially finding you

227
00:13:29,900 --> 00:13:33,900
know, receiving a civil penalty
of some sort for misrepresenting

228
00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:40,000
their green positions in the
business but what about, you

229
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,100
know, the company's risk for the
investor?

230
00:13:43,100 --> 00:13:47,100
I mean like an investor sees
this and says hey look this is

231
00:13:47,100 --> 00:13:50,300
not a company, I want to invest
in because of your greenwashing

232
00:13:50,300 --> 00:13:52,900
practices.
You haven't met the expectations

233
00:13:52,900 --> 00:13:56,300
of honest report.
What does that do to a company's

234
00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:00,300
stock value?
Yeah, that's exactly the case.

235
00:14:00,300 --> 00:14:04,700
This is the highest and most
important part of greenwashing,

236
00:14:04,700 --> 00:14:08,100
where shareholders, you know,
with through the stock price and

237
00:14:08,100 --> 00:14:10,900
investors are get affected by
greenwashing.

238
00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:18,200
He you created the Pioneer
legislation in 2022, were all

239
00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:23,800
the financial sector should
declare what kind of Investments

240
00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:26,500
are going to.
To do, and they classify the

241
00:14:26,500 --> 00:14:29,200
type of Investments are going to
be considered green.

242
00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:32,200
So there is no gray area
anymore.

243
00:14:32,300 --> 00:14:38,200
So this is not everything, but
this is a way forward for focus

244
00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:43,700
on investments that are clearly.
You know, Green sovereigns

245
00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:49,000
nuclear energy is going to be
considered green by 2025 and

246
00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:50,800
afterwards.
Is now going to be considered

247
00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,600
Grace?
It's the sense natural gas

248
00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,200
natural.
Us is considered green today

249
00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,800
under this legislation, but in
five years from now is not going

250
00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:04,000
to be considered green.
So it create rules about what is

251
00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:08,500
green and what is not.
So we're that no 33 looms of

252
00:15:08,500 --> 00:15:11,600
Investments should put their
money and when visit avoid

253
00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:13,400
getting their money.
So I believe this is a

254
00:15:13,408 --> 00:15:16,200
significant legislation and
already in Asia.

255
00:15:16,700 --> 00:15:19,700
All the Asian Pacific Islanders
they have started to do a copy

256
00:15:19,700 --> 00:15:22,600
and paste of this legislation
because they understood how

257
00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:26,400
important it is for For the
future Investments.

258
00:15:27,100 --> 00:15:32,500
Well yeah, I mean so are there
rules or guidelines in place to

259
00:15:32,500 --> 00:15:34,500
prevent the green washing from
happening?

260
00:15:34,500 --> 00:15:36,300
And if so what are they, you
know?

261
00:15:36,300 --> 00:15:41,700
Do they have any teeth?
No, that's the answer.

262
00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:49,100
So no real true liberal arts.
Same time if you are misleading,

263
00:15:49,100 --> 00:15:53,100
arrived, consumers, your
competition can go against you

264
00:15:53,700 --> 00:15:57,600
at the Diamond can put you in
the court above line, not

265
00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:01,100
necessarily right for green
housing, but for all the cases,

266
00:16:01,100 --> 00:16:04,300
including green goes in, which
is, which is obviously

267
00:16:04,300 --> 00:16:08,000
happening, right thing broke all
over the globe, but this is not

268
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,200
a specific legislation for
greenwashing.

269
00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:13,700
So we need a specific
legislation to clarify things.

270
00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:20,400
What is green, what you should
avoid, and what you should, how

271
00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:24,000
you should, you know, avoid
misleading, consumers, public.

272
00:16:24,100 --> 00:16:27,900
With anybody?
Yeah, I think, I think most

273
00:16:27,900 --> 00:16:31,300
consumers now.
There's a huge movement in any

274
00:16:31,300 --> 00:16:34,600
investment Community to, you
know, impact investment, I

275
00:16:34,608 --> 00:16:37,400
guess, is what we're calling it
at, you know, where they want to

276
00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:45,600
invest in green funds around the
globe and you know most of those

277
00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:49,600
types of funds now, are there
still providing a good return on

278
00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:54,400
the investment so to speak for
the investors compared to With

279
00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:58,000
the blue chip type companies who
aren't quote-unquote as green,

280
00:16:59,100 --> 00:17:02,000
but most people are wanted to
really put their money where

281
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,200
their mouth is when it comes to
Green investment because they're

282
00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,200
passionate about it.
They think there's a societal

283
00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:11,200
benefit and, and that, you know,
and environmental benefit and

284
00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:15,800
also an economic benefit, right?
So I think, you know, getting

285
00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:20,400
caught up in a company that's
not, you know, that is basically

286
00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:23,599
is doing green washing, and, and
it's against your beliefs, that

287
00:17:23,599 --> 00:17:25,800
that's where People are really
having some heartburn.

288
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:32,000
Yeah.
Hey listeners.

289
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:34,700
If you're looking for a Drilling
and an environmental Contracting

290
00:17:34,700 --> 00:17:37,300
firm, to help you delineate, the
extent that contamination at

291
00:17:37,300 --> 00:17:40,500
your site will look no further
than Cascade environmental.

292
00:17:40,900 --> 00:17:44,100
They are the only Field Services
contractor with the personnel

293
00:17:44,100 --> 00:17:46,600
and equipment needed to work
with you, from Project

294
00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:50,400
conception to completion.
Cascade has over thirty seven

295
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:53,200
offices across the country and
offers a huge range of

296
00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:55,500
environmental and G.
A technical drilling site

297
00:17:55,500 --> 00:17:57,800
characterization and Remediation
Services.

298
00:17:58,100 --> 00:18:00,400
Thanks that our technical
expertise, huge Fleet of

299
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,400
equipment and Nationwide.
Coverage Cascade is a great

300
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:05,700
choice to support your
environmental and infrastructure

301
00:18:05,700 --> 00:18:08,800
project needs to learn more.
Check them out at

302
00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:18,000
www.caucusnj.org in v.com,
that's www.catecosta.com v.com.

303
00:18:21,700 --> 00:18:25,600
What types of green Investments
decisions are being made?

304
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,000
You know, I mean, are you
familiar with this type of an

305
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:32,300
approach for the green
investment approach, to picking

306
00:18:32,300 --> 00:18:34,300
a stock or picking a mutual
fund?

307
00:18:34,300 --> 00:18:36,100
Or, you know, I think there's
like I said, there's a huge

308
00:18:36,100 --> 00:18:40,100
Trend in this and and I think
these fact Checkers and the

309
00:18:40,108 --> 00:18:42,500
investment Community are really
looking at these companies for

310
00:18:42,500 --> 00:18:46,700
the greenwashing, you know,
actions so to speak for they can

311
00:18:46,900 --> 00:18:49,100
prove in the be part of their
their funds.

312
00:18:50,500 --> 00:18:53,800
Yes.
Yes, we have noticed but there's

313
00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:57,800
a progress towards this
direction because everybody

314
00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:01,700
wants to know more about what's
happening out there and I think

315
00:19:01,700 --> 00:19:05,400
it's in the right direction, but
also, but why you have AC

316
00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:07,700
ratings?
You know, they see ratings and

317
00:19:07,700 --> 00:19:10,200
where many types of is
generating the provide, the

318
00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:16,600
third party evidence about the
rating of your company, so when

319
00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:21,500
and third-party rate your
company, usually, we get Then

320
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:27,000
above the level of the writing.
So one way is the ESG ratings

321
00:19:27,700 --> 00:19:32,100
another way is screaming.
So a lot of investment funds,

322
00:19:32,300 --> 00:19:34,500
pension fund.
For example, we have esz

323
00:19:34,700 --> 00:19:38,000
screaming themes where they, you
know, they do a lot of due

324
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:43,100
diligence about words actually
doing and what you're not.

325
00:19:43,300 --> 00:19:47,300
So we have all the data, right?
And it's important of course,

326
00:19:47,300 --> 00:19:50,500
before they take an equity or
investing in the company.

327
00:19:50,500 --> 00:19:54,000
So we know More information.
And there's so many other

328
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,800
initiatives like, third-party
check third party audit you

329
00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:02,500
know, over so many different
tools out there but not likely

330
00:20:02,500 --> 00:20:06,900
used.
I mean, it's got to be I think

331
00:20:06,900 --> 00:20:13,100
one of those evolving criteria
or screening, you know, the

332
00:20:13,100 --> 00:20:16,500
evaluations where companies are
investors are starting to really

333
00:20:16,500 --> 00:20:20,200
pay attention to it more.
But I was reading an article

334
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:24,300
prior to the Our interviews had
58 percent of the investors in a

335
00:20:24,300 --> 00:20:28,100
recent survey by invest Topia
and treehugger indicated, an

336
00:20:28,100 --> 00:20:30,900
increase interest in ESG
investments in 2020.

337
00:20:31,500 --> 00:20:35,500
And nineteen percent reported
using ESG considerations in

338
00:20:35,500 --> 00:20:39,100
selecting Investments.
How would green washing affect

339
00:20:39,100 --> 00:20:42,700
these investment decisions?
I mean, they're going to it

340
00:20:42,700 --> 00:20:48,700
would really, you know, if
you're an investor and you know

341
00:20:48,700 --> 00:20:52,200
this I mean your you want to do
a green investment?

342
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:55,900
I think it's really hard for
these investors to probably get

343
00:20:55,900 --> 00:20:58,300
this information at your
fingertips.

344
00:20:58,300 --> 00:20:59,500
Right?
Exactly.

345
00:20:59,500 --> 00:21:04,100
So that's why this investors,
they either have to use the ESG

346
00:21:04,100 --> 00:21:06,100
rating providers.
You know.

347
00:21:06,300 --> 00:21:07,500
Who are there?
Any parts?

348
00:21:08,100 --> 00:21:09,000
Yeah.
They're movies.

349
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:10,700
You know, you know, very well
known.

350
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:16,400
Okay, Daisy, no sustained.
A latex msci SNP, 500.

351
00:21:16,500 --> 00:21:20,100
You know, they all do this job.
I'm not going to use the term

352
00:21:20,100 --> 00:21:22,700
perfect but, you know, it's
better than nothing.

353
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,700
Right?
And and but what you mention is

354
00:21:25,700 --> 00:21:32,300
why the Europe is doing a lot
with the new legislation on EU

355
00:21:32,300 --> 00:21:36,600
taxonomy as we call it because
they're going to create clear

356
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:41,200
rules and say okay this you know
if you invest in our no solar

357
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,200
panels This is considered the
green investment.

358
00:21:44,300 --> 00:21:47,900
If you are I don't know if you
are.

359
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:53,700
Sorry, investing hydrogen.
It's not a great investment.

360
00:21:53,700 --> 00:21:57,300
The hydrogen to be green.
There is a classification of

361
00:21:57,300 --> 00:22:01,200
green hydrogen before you make
it a great investment because

362
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,700
the other hydrogen is not
considered green at all.

363
00:22:03,700 --> 00:22:08,300
So, no, just give you an example
of rules of what and

364
00:22:08,300 --> 00:22:14,100
classification of type of
activities that we investors

365
00:22:14,100 --> 00:22:19,300
should or could You know, invest
more money in can feel sure.

366
00:22:19,300 --> 00:22:23,200
But, you know, there is no
greenwashing or gray area there,

367
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:28,500
right?
Wow.

368
00:22:28,500 --> 00:22:32,100
Okay, so a lot to take in here,
when it comes to evaluating

369
00:22:32,100 --> 00:22:36,000
companies in there, they're
green claims.

370
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:39,800
So to speak in these rating
systems are one, which is good,

371
00:22:40,700 --> 00:22:47,400
but how would a normal person,
you know, spot, you know,

372
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:53,800
greenwashing just, you know,
from a consumer perspective like

373
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:57,200
if you didn't really have you
didn't have, you know, the

374
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,800
rating at your Estimate your
hand, you know, you have nothing

375
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:06,100
Spot It.
Yeah, it's about the education.

376
00:23:06,100 --> 00:23:11,100
It's about information is above
knowledge in a very complicated

377
00:23:11,100 --> 00:23:12,500
area, right?
When we're talking about

378
00:23:12,500 --> 00:23:15,600
packaging, it's impossible to
read anything on packaging

379
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:17,100
today.
Honestly, I mean, you need to

380
00:23:17,100 --> 00:23:21,700
know everything I believe for
greenwashing.

381
00:23:21,700 --> 00:23:24,700
If you have an understanding of
the basic things of

382
00:23:24,700 --> 00:23:27,100
sustainability.
If you take one of the courses

383
00:23:27,100 --> 00:23:31,200
of CSA, for example, and where
many levels of course, of

384
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:35,000
course, is where the day, Basic
the most advanced and so on, I

385
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,000
believe you can be able to
easily after one course to

386
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,100
classify.
I would say, in seconds, a

387
00:23:41,100 --> 00:23:45,100
gringo seeing activity,
extremely easy, for example, you

388
00:23:45,100 --> 00:23:51,800
know, is it Tesla green car?
Can you can Tesla declare, that

389
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,900
is a green car.
And my answer is no, this is

390
00:23:54,900 --> 00:24:00,600
obviously heavy greenwashing by
Tesla because only according to

391
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,300
MIT studies and sir, Elaborate
on this only when you know the

392
00:24:04,300 --> 00:24:07,700
energy you use during you know
the life of a car is bring your

393
00:24:07,700 --> 00:24:12,200
plan and see and if also a
production of the car is taking

394
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,800
place through renewable energy
and so and so on and it is so

395
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:20,100
many other parameters.
Then Tesla could be or any other

396
00:24:20,100 --> 00:24:23,100
EV, right?
Not only Tesla, but that's like,

397
00:24:23,100 --> 00:24:24,800
I was being promoted as green
card.

398
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:28,800
That's why I'm using this
example could be considered as

399
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:32,100
more sustainable solution of an
existing, you know, vehicle, Us

400
00:24:32,108 --> 00:24:35,900
but we use.
So it's not a single as it

401
00:24:35,900 --> 00:24:39,300
seems.
So, he is cannot declare as

402
00:24:39,300 --> 00:24:43,800
grain as if anybody declared
that immediately is doing heavy

403
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:47,600
greenwashing.
Well, that's interesting.

404
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:51,900
You bring that up because I
mean, that is where a lot of the

405
00:24:51,900 --> 00:24:55,700
automotive Industries, pushing
to get consumers to buy their

406
00:24:55,700 --> 00:25:01,800
product, because it's a more
sustainable way of, you know,

407
00:25:03,100 --> 00:25:04,700
You know, mode of
transportation.

408
00:25:04,700 --> 00:25:09,500
But yeah, some, yeah, if you see
that from the perspective of

409
00:25:09,500 --> 00:25:14,100
getting away from fossil fuels,
yes it is a sustainable way.

410
00:25:14,300 --> 00:25:17,400
But, if you see the numbers CO2
emissions, right?

411
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:21,100
During the creation of the
vehicles, auction, actually

412
00:25:21,100 --> 00:25:25,500
occurring materials, and think
the end of the life.

413
00:25:25,500 --> 00:25:31,200
Yeah, not necessarily green.
So, You know, that's the, that's

414
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,000
that full life cycle analysis
that needs to take place when

415
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,700
you assess, you know a green
product from its, you know,

416
00:25:38,700 --> 00:25:41,000
Inception to, you know,
completion.

417
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,900
And and that is very
interesting, you bring that up

418
00:25:43,900 --> 00:25:47,900
because I think people are
losing sight of the real impact

419
00:25:47,900 --> 00:25:52,900
of of, you know, producing a
what would be perceivably a

420
00:25:52,900 --> 00:25:56,600
green product, right.
But there are still CO2 impacts

421
00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:00,900
and emissions and and and you
know, - things that happen in

422
00:26:00,900 --> 00:26:03,000
the in the development of
manufacturing process that

423
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,100
aren't really factored into that
assessment.

424
00:26:05,700 --> 00:26:05,900
Yeah.
Yeah.

425
00:26:05,900 --> 00:26:10,800
But they want to clarify is that
if these for me are important

426
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,800
because you're moving away from
fossil fuels as an industry.

427
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,000
So from this perspective, it is
important.

428
00:26:18,500 --> 00:26:23,200
So we can overrides a little bit
of some of the negativity around

429
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:27,200
the greenwashing claims, because
the overall benefits better

430
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:28,300
than.
Yeah.

431
00:26:28,300 --> 00:26:32,800
The offer of Yeah, the marketing
guys that should be extremely

432
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,200
careful.
So we cannot communicate.

433
00:26:35,300 --> 00:26:38,300
It is as green mean.
This is definitely a lie.

434
00:26:39,700 --> 00:26:41,200
Okay.
Are we get like that's hard to

435
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:42,400
do?
Yeah, I can see what you're

436
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,300
saying there.
It's hard to argue with that.

437
00:26:44,300 --> 00:26:49,200
I mean, and I think from I did
an episode, matter of fact, the

438
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:53,800
last episode we did was with a
company who is doing a lot of

439
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:57,400
This research on consumer
products called Fetch and

440
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,700
benches.
A Plug into, you know, maybe

441
00:27:00,700 --> 00:27:05,100
your online shopping experience,
where you type in a product and

442
00:27:05,100 --> 00:27:07,300
they will tell you, you know, is
it green or not?

443
00:27:07,300 --> 00:27:09,200
Green is it more sustainable
than other products?

444
00:27:09,900 --> 00:27:12,600
I mean, these are solutions that
are helping consumers, figure

445
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:14,500
out whether things are not green
or green.

446
00:27:14,500 --> 00:27:18,400
And so, you know, when I
interviewed the CEO of fetch

447
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,500
Lizzie horvitz, I mean, she
really kind of explained how her

448
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:25,800
her products works and, and how
that's really affecting, you

449
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,400
know, consumers and how they're
helping and make them more.

450
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:30,800
Decisions, right?
I mean, that's one way.

451
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,100
Obviously, you can go to look
out, look companies up and, and

452
00:27:34,100 --> 00:27:36,700
in fact, check, but I think
that's the problem.

453
00:27:36,700 --> 00:27:40,100
People don't have time, they
don't really have the time.

454
00:27:40,100 --> 00:27:44,300
Yeah, really good enough.
It could be, you know, could be

455
00:27:44,300 --> 00:27:47,900
a simplified up, let me use this
way because it's extremely

456
00:27:47,900 --> 00:27:50,100
complex issues, everything we
discussed.

457
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,300
I think it could be, you know, a
good possible, you know,

458
00:27:54,300 --> 00:27:58,000
solution for consumers.
And as CSA, we're going to

459
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,600
support with A huge network of
you know, so many thousands of

460
00:28:01,608 --> 00:28:04,200
professionals.
But we have educate.

461
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:08,200
And we also advise through this
perspective, you know, there is

462
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,500
a need for an app for
simplifying things.

463
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,600
What does this work?
Where is the need for

464
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:17,500
legislation on greenwashing at
the same time for protecting

465
00:28:17,500 --> 00:28:20,700
investors and shareholders?
Well, how about just like you

466
00:28:20,700 --> 00:28:24,600
know, label label reporting when
you buy something on a product?

467
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,800
You're usually, if you know
you're buying food, it tells you

468
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:28,800
how many calories the product
has.

469
00:28:28,900 --> 00:28:31,400
And breaks down me.
What have we had a separate

470
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:35,200
little sustainable rating system
that says, this is the CO2

471
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,600
impact of this product.
Yes.

472
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,200
Already friend.
France has been introduced such

473
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:46,800
an Initiative for for
particular, kind of food

474
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,400
products.
If I think that was to place a

475
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,700
few years ago, I'm not sure how
successfully days.

476
00:28:53,700 --> 00:29:00,200
But it seems that mandatory
label of the carbon footprint of

477
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:04,000
the product is on the way
together with carbon tax.

478
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,300
So, these are three nice, it is
that we can see.

479
00:29:07,300 --> 00:29:11,200
But it may take place to our
Trends by 2025, you know, carbon

480
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:15,400
footprint, label not necessarily
around the globe at least in

481
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:20,800
Europe or in Canada, perhaps.
I'm not sure about the us but

482
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:24,000
also carbon tax.
As, you know, Canada has started

483
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,800
a few years ago before process.
Yeah, the rest of the world is

484
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:31,700
following right now, mean
everybody's is creating carbon

485
00:29:31,700 --> 00:29:34,100
tax policies against the
polluters.

486
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:36,800
Well, yeah, there's a lot
movement there.

487
00:29:36,900 --> 00:29:43,800
There.
This episode is sponsored by

488
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,700
piece people advancing science
to protect our environment and

489
00:29:46,700 --> 00:29:49,300
improve our health.
Pace provides an unmatched

490
00:29:49,300 --> 00:29:52,300
depth, and breadth of testing
and analytical capabilities,

491
00:29:52,300 --> 00:29:55,600
along with Professional Services
for your in-house lab needs,

492
00:29:55,900 --> 00:29:59,300
they have the expertise capacity
and delivery infrastructure to

493
00:29:59,300 --> 00:30:02,600
provide the certified results
you require when and where you

494
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:06,500
need them with over 40 years of
innovation, more than 500

495
00:30:06,500 --> 00:30:09,200
certifications.
And accreditations pace is

496
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:13,000
serving customers through over
100 lab and Service Center

497
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,200
locations with mobile lab on
site and emergency response

498
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,300
service options available.
Add paste, a honor, their

499
00:30:19,300 --> 00:30:21,300
commitments so you can order
yours.

500
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:23,100
The next time.
You are presented with

501
00:30:23,100 --> 00:30:26,900
environmental testing and
analytical needs turn to Pace to

502
00:30:26,900 --> 00:30:31,100
learn more.
Go to www.petland.com that's

503
00:30:31,100 --> 00:30:37,800
www.petland.com.
But what are some of the

504
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,100
challenges companies face with
properly reporting their green

505
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,200
Elves, so they don't end up
greenwashing their results.

506
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,000
What this do in order to avoid
great ghosting.

507
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,700
But your question, well, what
are some of the challenges that

508
00:30:52,700 --> 00:30:56,400
they face when they're trying
to, you know, properly report

509
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,500
their green initiatives before
you end up?

510
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,100
You know, without actually
greenwashing?

511
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:06,600
Yeah, first of all is lack of
Education of their directors and

512
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:12,800
supervisors, lack of Director of
Education of themselves.

513
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:18,000
Exit, e of the new standards
that are out there.

514
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:24,900
Norm's always issues are big
supporters of greenwashing.

515
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,000
How does that?
How do you think technology

516
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,900
factors into the greenwashing
you know, challenges that

517
00:31:32,900 --> 00:31:39,100
companies face mean tracking you
know data management reporting.

518
00:31:39,100 --> 00:31:42,500
I mean what where do you say
that to be a big problem in the

519
00:31:42,500 --> 00:31:46,800
industry that that Monuments Men
In the sustainability of

520
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:48,900
sustainability data is a
challenge.

521
00:31:48,900 --> 00:31:51,600
Of course, we're a lot of
software's out there, but still

522
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:57,200
tracking and verifying data.
It's not only tracking, but also

523
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,200
very fact that it's a big
challenge.

524
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,000
I think this is the biggest
challenge right now, but the

525
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,900
companies are facing, it's not
only tracking, but also

526
00:32:05,900 --> 00:32:11,000
verifying both.
I have to say, and I believe

527
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,300
they're going to be a lot of
solutions towards this direction

528
00:32:13,300 --> 00:32:16,300
because they have to to write.
I mean, doesn't seem like

529
00:32:16,300 --> 00:32:21,000
there's any one software program
that meets everybody's

530
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,300
expectations.
There's no Silver Bullet out

531
00:32:23,300 --> 00:32:25,300
there.
There's many, many ways to, to,

532
00:32:25,300 --> 00:32:29,600
and, to calculate, you know, and
measure green, greenhouse gas.

533
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:33,600
And, you know, sustainability
several Solutions.

534
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,400
Not none of them is perfect.
Yet similar Solutions.

535
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,300
That's where we are right now.
There's a progress towards this

536
00:32:40,300 --> 00:32:42,400
direction.
Yeah, I think, I think for the

537
00:32:42,408 --> 00:32:44,300
next 10 years, 10, 15 years,
this.

538
00:32:44,500 --> 00:32:48,900
This, this whole evolution of a
software scenario for data

539
00:32:48,900 --> 00:32:54,100
management data analytics, you
know, reporting is it's going to

540
00:32:54,108 --> 00:32:57,200
evolve, you know, quite a bit
and there's be a lot of players.

541
00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,200
It's not just one.
There's so many different

542
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:04,300
Industries so many different use
cases, you know, business

543
00:33:04,300 --> 00:33:07,000
practices that all need to be
factored in and it's I think

544
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:08,400
there's going to be so much of
this.

545
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:12,600
Bespoke type custom reporting
scenarios that's not just a

546
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,300
cookie cutters.
Solution that's going to help

547
00:33:15,300 --> 00:33:19,600
everybody.
Well, you know, let's has we

548
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:21,700
wrap up here.
Niko's, tell us talk a little

549
00:33:21,700 --> 00:33:25,900
bit about what's CSE doing to
help companies with greenwashing

550
00:33:25,900 --> 00:33:28,800
concerns.
Yeah, yeah thank you so much for

551
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,900
asking this question and I think
it's an important one.

552
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:38,100
So first of all we do a lot of
research and indentify areas

553
00:33:38,100 --> 00:33:42,200
where a heavy greenwashing we
educate marketing and

554
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,900
communication professionals and
sustainable professionals, how

555
00:33:44,900 --> 00:33:48,400
to avoid green bullshit.
That's and again Our impact is

556
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:52,000
huge there because we are leader
in sustainability education.

557
00:33:52,700 --> 00:33:57,100
We advise corporations how to be
accurate in their statements,

558
00:33:57,100 --> 00:34:01,200
inverse the nobility report and
also in provide the number of

559
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,800
tools, like the history
assessment tool, where we can

560
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:08,300
identify where they stand and
stability, you know, and provide

561
00:34:08,300 --> 00:34:11,000
more accurate, that Traverse the
nobility report.

562
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:17,000
These are some of the ways that
you know, says he contributes to

563
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:22,199
the Avoidance of greenwashing so
far but I believe honestly.

564
00:34:22,199 --> 00:34:26,100
But the most important aspect so
far as the education, right?

565
00:34:26,100 --> 00:34:28,500
It's like far V.
You know, the most important

566
00:34:28,500 --> 00:34:33,699
impact that we have in the globe
in the avoidance approve, option

567
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:35,900
here.
I think I think more awareness

568
00:34:35,900 --> 00:34:41,699
about that more shows or product
you know top topics like this

569
00:34:41,699 --> 00:34:44,500
episodes were talking about
greenwashing highlighting you

570
00:34:44,500 --> 00:34:47,300
know the topic how it works.
What does it do?

571
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,199
Affect investors House Effect
companies you know, reputational

572
00:34:51,199 --> 00:34:54,100
risk, things like that.
This is what's going to drive,

573
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,000
you know, Industries and then I
unfortunately you know there's

574
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:58,800
going to be those situations
where companies are going to be

575
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,400
fine for, you know,
inappropriately reporting.

576
00:35:02,100 --> 00:35:05,400
And you know, I'd hate to be in
a position where I was a CEO of

577
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:06,700
a company.
Didn't know that.

578
00:35:06,700 --> 00:35:09,600
I was misreporting, in fact, it
actually was happening, I'd be

579
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:13,200
pretty upset but that, you know,
not knowing that and I think the

580
00:35:13,207 --> 00:35:16,700
challenge there is just not like
you said, being educated enough

581
00:35:16,700 --> 00:35:19,900
to know that I To deal with.
I need to dive into the details

582
00:35:19,900 --> 00:35:24,000
of bed to understand the whole
process because it seems like,

583
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:28,800
you know, Society is really
pushed forward with this whole

584
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,700
Mantra or mentality of
sustainability.

585
00:35:31,700 --> 00:35:35,600
And and, you know, it's it's
part of, you know, the DNA of

586
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:39,000
the new investor, right?
Yeah.

587
00:35:39,700 --> 00:35:42,900
That means they're going to be
driving, you know.

588
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:45,900
The younger generation is
willing to put their money,

589
00:35:45,900 --> 00:35:47,400
they're willing to pay more
money.

590
00:35:47,500 --> 00:35:50,500
For a product, that's, it's
truly green than a product.

591
00:35:50,500 --> 00:35:53,800
That's, you know, maybe less
expensive, but not as green.

592
00:35:54,100 --> 00:35:55,600
Yeah.
But the interesting thing is

593
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:59,400
that the investors are the less
educated on sustainability

594
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:05,200
issues at the same time and this
is a big gap that we need to you

595
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:09,200
know find a way to fill in the
Gap, right off.

596
00:36:09,500 --> 00:36:11,300
Educate of the appropriate
education.

597
00:36:11,300 --> 00:36:16,000
So we are so proud that the last
two or three years, there is

598
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:20,300
more and more demand for board
of directors, education or

599
00:36:20,300 --> 00:36:22,600
stability.
And as you know, CSC is a leader

600
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:27,200
involved and where many Boards
of directors that they request

601
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:31,200
from us to educate them about,
you know, what is happening in

602
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,800
this inability was important to
their business, how they can't

603
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:37,700
avoid greenwashing and they all
give a lot of attention to that

604
00:36:37,700 --> 00:36:40,700
nobody wants risk to their
business, just to let you know.

605
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,600
Yeah, I know.
Hey no, I totally agree me that.

606
00:36:44,700 --> 00:36:46,700
Why do you want to have that
kind of sitting out there?

607
00:36:46,700 --> 00:36:50,200
That's really You know,
affecting the, the growth of

608
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:52,800
your business because you've got
this negative impact on, it's

609
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:56,300
like having a bad social media,
you know, post it goes out viral

610
00:36:56,300 --> 00:36:59,500
on, you know it's another one of
those reputational challenges

611
00:36:59,500 --> 00:37:01,100
that companies at the face
today.

612
00:37:01,100 --> 00:37:06,000
So this is all been great
topics, great discussion today.

613
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:10,000
Niko's, a really appreciate you
coming on the show today, you

614
00:37:10,008 --> 00:37:14,000
know, I think we are going to
try to get a green investment

615
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,800
topic, inner, you know, episode
here in the near Future.

616
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:19,800
I think that'd be very
interesting to see how the

617
00:37:20,100 --> 00:37:23,600
mindset of an investment manager
is thinks about green

618
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:25,100
Investments.
I think that we're going to try

619
00:37:25,100 --> 00:37:27,000
to find somebody to come on the
show about that.

620
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,700
So any listeners out there, know
anybody there reach out to me.

621
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:32,100
We're group 10 years because
not.

622
00:37:32,300 --> 00:37:36,200
All right, Niko's, great to see
you again Happy New Year to all

623
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,100
our listeners.
And they are not being

624
00:37:38,100 --> 00:37:40,200
Sustainable New Year.
That's that's right.

625
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:45,400
It's gonna be a great 2023.
So good to see you and take

626
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:48,000
care, talk to you soon.
Thank you.

627
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,000
I want to thank our guests.
Niko's have Lana's for coming

628
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,500
onto the show today.
If you want to learn more about

629
00:37:59,500 --> 00:38:02,500
Niko's in his company, the
center for sustainability and

630
00:38:02,500 --> 00:38:06,100
excellence and the services they
offer, you can go to their

631
00:38:06,100 --> 00:38:11,500
website at www.csiro.au.
Net dot org.

632
00:38:11,500 --> 00:38:16,900
That's www.cpsc.gov net dot org.
You can also connect with him

633
00:38:16,900 --> 00:38:20,400
via LinkedIn and I'll also put
us contact information on my

634
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,400
website to listen to Future
environmental transformation

635
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:25,200
podcast.
You can check us out on Apple

636
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:29,400
podcast Spotify, Google podcast
and other podcast networks or

637
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:35,800
better yet from my website at
www.ge.com K great e.com and you

638
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,300
can also follow me on Instagram
over the environmental

639
00:38:38,300 --> 00:38:41,400
transformation podcast, Facebook
page.

640
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,300
If you enjoyed the podcast
episode, don't forget to

641
00:38:44,300 --> 00:38:46,900
subscribe and tell your friends.
I'd also like to hear your

642
00:38:46,900 --> 00:38:50,700
feedback from the ET Nation.
About the episode and any other

643
00:38:50,700 --> 00:38:54,400
future podcast topics, you'd
like me to cover Well for now,

644
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:56,800
thanks for listening.
And until next time, make a

645
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,300
positive impact in someone's
life today.