A discussion with the U.S. EPA’s Office of Water Deputy Assistant Administrator Bruno Pigott.

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It would be really great to see
some Trend analysis, some

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dashboard, you know, some
Community, if you could drill

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into a local community, you
could see results.

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I mean, so much of that
information you have at your, in

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your, you know, databases
somewhere.

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It would be, wonderful to see
some analytics done on that

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stuff.
Well, and we will do analytics

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on it.
The data will be used to support

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our Regulatory determination,
that's the whole reason for you.

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See, Mr. Is, let's look at the
data and then make a

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determination about whether we
should regulate these chemicals.

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And so we'll be using that data
will be sifting through.

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It will be analyzing it and so
that we can make a determination

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about whether or not, we should
be regulating that remember,

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their unregulated currently.
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Welcome to the environmental
transformation podcast.

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I'm your host, Sean gradient,
today's guest is a Bruno

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Piggott.
Bruno is the Deputy assistant

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administrator for the US EPA and
of the office of water.

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And the office of Water Works to
ensure that drinking water is

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safe.
The wife's water safely returned

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to the environment and service
waters are properly managed and

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protected, you know, before
Bruno join the EPA, he held

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multiple multiple roles at the
Indiana Department of

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Environmental Management.
Most Serving as the commissioner

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of the agency and the chief of
staff and the assistant,

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commissioner of the office of
water quality.

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He started his service career as
a chief of the state revolving

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Loan Fund program in Indiana and
Bruno holds a bachelor's degree

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in political Theory and
economics from James Madison

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College, at Michigan State
University, and a master's

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degree in the in public
environmental public affairs

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from the Indiana University of
environmental public affairs.

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So, Bruno, welcome back to the
show.

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The last time.
Yeah.

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The last time we had you on the
show was almost two and a half

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years ago, it's hard to believe.
It's been that long.

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I know you were you were
navigating the pandemic, you are

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navigating the idem through the
pandemic transitioning to

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working from home and man, that
was a big challenge for you at

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the time.
If I recall.

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Yeah, as it was for everybody,
you know, it was, it was

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definitely a big challenge for
the work.

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Place and I'm glad we're through
it.

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And people are getting back to
some semblance, although, you

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know, our workplace is changed
as a result.

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I think.
Isn't that right?

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Yeah, a lot more remote work
than ever before and workplaces

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are adapting.
How's that happening?

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I mean, how's that?
Look at the EPA level there in

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Washington, d.c., well, it's the
same as it is.

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In many other places.
There's an ability.

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He of a lot of folks to work
from home.

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And for some people it's really
especially people in the labs

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and research roles that they're
going to be in the office.

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But for a whole host of other
people, the workplace has become

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a much more flexible workplace.
So people are in and out 3 days

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a week, let's just say that they
come into the office and as a

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time where you're doing a lot of
in-person meetings, which

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actually, I think is a really
good thing.

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So It's been it's been a great
transition to this new kind of

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format and I think we're going
to see a more flexible workplace

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at least that's what we're doing
right now.

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Yeah we see the same thing here
in the Private Industry and and

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you know I think we're all being
aware of the challenges of what

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Kobe has brought to our work
life.

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And I think most companies are
adapting quite well with this

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kind of flexible work schedule.
It's great.

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I'm I think it's good.
Think we're realizing we can be

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sustainable working from home
more sustainable and, you know,

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still being productive.
So it's a good thing.

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You know, the one thing that I
think we do miss that that it's

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worth commenting on.
You know, this conversation

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we're having right now.
It's a, it's kind of a

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free-flowing conversation when
you're on a team, typical teams

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meeting in a in the workplace.
I think that there's less

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opportunity to have a
free-flowing Conversation where

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you might be able to talk about
issues that are kind of

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tangential to the one you just
met about but but really you get

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a lot of work done.
So the in-person component I

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think is critical still to being
collaborative and working

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together, but I think we're
figuring out what the balance is

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between the in-person
collaboration and then the

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remote work stuff and we'll
settle on something going

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forward but I'm the smartest
guy.

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I didn't know exactly how that's
going to shake out.

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Well, that's good, that's good.
So, all right.

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Well, let's dive in.
Tell us, you know, what is, you

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know, what, what, what's your
new role like?

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You know, tell us a little bit
about the difference between

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being the commissioner of an
agency a state agency and now

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you're the, you know, the deputy
assistant administrator of

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office water.
Yeah.

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So I'm Deputy assistant
administrator in the office of

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water.
And what it means is, I'm part

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of a senior staff at u.s.
CPA.

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Work with the assistant
administrator, who's Senate

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confirmed appointee to the role
and I work on the wide range of

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issues that we're facing at EPA
in the office of water.

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What what's different or one
thing that's different is I work

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at an agency.
Now that is about 16 times as

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big as the agency.
I worked in previously right

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here are Ten Regional Offices
Across the Nation.

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Then, there are 10 offices of
research and development Across

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the Nation.
In addition to that and then

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there are 10 Laboratories around
the nation as well.

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So it's a pretty it's a pretty
big organization.

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You got about 16,000 people who
work here and the role that I

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have in this agency which is Is
big and has a nationwide impact,

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is in the area of putting
together, kind of our

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regulations, and our guidance is
that then are implemented by

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States and our Regional Offices.
So in the, in the job that I had

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working at the Department of
Environmental Management, we

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really implemented, the federal
regulations that is We put them

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in place in writing through our
rulemaking process at the state,

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but then we carried them out and
writing permits, and doing all

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of the work of putting in place
enforcement and inspection and

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permitting.
And here in Washington, d.c.

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were more about setting, the
guardrails writing the rules and

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then providing the assistance to
States.

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And entities around the country.
Yeah, that's a different

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perspective of understanding.
You know, where you play into

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the whole mix of, you know,
governance or implementing, you

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know, pretty PA protection or
Environmental Protection.

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So, that's got to be a
challenge, just learning the

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differences.
I'm sure, you know, what is the

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mission of the office of water
manager of the office of water

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at the EPA right now?
Well, it fits within the

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agency's larger Mission, which
is Is It ultimately to protect

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human health and the environment
we do that in a number of ways?

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We're in our focus is, of course
water quality.

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We do it to, we work to ensure
that we have clean water, that

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the efforts we make reduce the
environmental risks based on the

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best available scientific
information that we put in place

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and implement or interpret the
federal laws that are designed

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To protect human health and the
environment and that we

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administer them and enforce them
fairly effectively and as

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Congress intended.
And environmental stewardship is

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integral to policies concerning
human health, economic growth

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energy, Transportation, all of
those areas.

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And to do that, we develop and
enforce regulations.

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We give grants to States.
And in entities, we study

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environmental issues and I was
referring to our office of

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research and development.
They really are our focus on

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studying environmental issues
and we also engage in

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Partnerships Partnerships with a
wide variety of folks.

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From the private sector to folks
in not-for-profit environmental

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organizations and Industry.
We also do some teaching of

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environmental Consciousness
around the Country, and then we

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publish information.
Those are the big, the big

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things that we do to carry out
the mission in the office of the

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spot.
So that's a lot that mean that's

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a lot of responsibility.
So what are some of the big

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agenda items that the office of
water has at the EPA?

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Well, we have a number of big
items that we've been working on

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and I'll talk about a number of
them, one of the big ones that

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we've talked about.
Well, So first of all, it pays

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to talk a little bit about where
we've come from.

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We're this past year, we've
celebrated the 50th anniversary

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of the Clean Water Act and
during that 50-year period

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between the Inception of the
Clean Water Act.

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And today we've done a lot to
improve the environment we put

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in place, secondary and tertiary
treatment techniques that have

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been employed by municipalities
Combined sewer discharges have

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been addressed through
Technologies and tunnel.

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Water reuse has become a common
strategy for meeting water.

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Needs in the west.
Green infrastructure has become

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an integral part of treatment
and so today, 50 years in water

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and wastewater so much more
advanced than at the beginning

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of the Clean Water Act, we've
had so many laudable Clean Water

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Act successes over the past 50
years.

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And I've been lucky to be able
to travel around the nation and

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and see them in action.
And so the question is, what do

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we doing moving forward and
there are several big agenda

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items.
We've been working on most

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recently.
We've been working on P fasts

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and I'll be the first to
acknowledge that states really

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led the charge when it comes to
pfos, but I'm here today to

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report that EPA is doing more
than this.

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00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:53,100
Been done at the federal level
to address these forever.

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Chemicals, just last month, we
took a key step to protecting

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drinking water from pfos with a
proposal of a national drinking

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00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:08,000
water rule for pifo and pfos.
And as the lead Federal agency

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responsible for ensuring Safe,
Drinking Water for Americans.

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We're leveraging most recent
science and building on existing

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state efforts to limit pfos to
provide a nationwide.

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Wide Health protective level for
these specific pfos and drinking

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water.
And and so, what we're doing is

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proposing to establish legally.
Defensible levels for six P, Phi

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is known to occur in drinking
water and the proposal we put

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out there it will regulate p foa
and pfos pfoa and pfos is

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individual contaminants and then
will regulate for others.

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PFA.
For other p.

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P Foss, pfn a PF H, XS p, f BS,
and Gen-X chemicals as a mixture

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and if finalized its new rule
will result in less pfos and

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00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:07,500
drinking water across the u.s.
and and we believe prevent

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00:14:07,500 --> 00:14:10,900
thousands of deaths and tens of
thousands of illnesses.

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We're in a process right now of
putting the rule out and getting

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public feedback.
So, We're really interested in

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00:14:21,100 --> 00:14:26,300
the folks who watch your podcast
to take a look at that rule, and

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provide comments to better,
inform our rule, which we hope

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to conclude by just the end of
this year.

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And we're not just setting, new
standards were helping

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communities meet these
challenges.

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And you remember, Sean, in the
past when new requirements were

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added to everybody's plates,
they were rarely funded.

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In the words, Unfunded mandates
were always on the lips of every

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state and municipality.
But today, thanks to President

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Biden's leadership and the
bipartisan action and Congress.

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The bipartisan infrastructure
law provides an unprecedented.

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Nine billion dollars to invest
in drinking water systems

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impacted by pfos and other
emerging contaminants.

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We're also working.
We've got a whole pfos.

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A road map if you will in so
that drinking water standards.

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Just one piece of it, we're
working on pfos and bio.

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Bio solids, we're putting
together an npdes permitting

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memo that we've actually sent
out to a regions about the npdes

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permitting program and what can
be done to address ppas

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discharges and so people has
been a real Big issue.

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Another big one is eleven
copper.

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We're working hard to improve
the lead and copper rule

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revisions that were established
in the last Administration.

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The lead and copper rule
improvements rulemaking.

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Aims to faster and further
protect citizens from lead and

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drinking water and simplify.
What is admittedly by all

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accounts?
A confusing trigger level

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00:16:15,100 --> 00:16:18,800
Action, level notification,
requirement system.

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That's currently in place.
And then we're also working to

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ensure funding is available to
states that need it to address

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this issue.
We just issued a new revised

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formula for Distributing money.
Through the srf program designed

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to ensure that the states that
really need those dollars.

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Can get them.
So those are some of the

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regulatory things we've been
working on.

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Of course, I can talk about The
billions of dollars that we've

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been Distributing through the
state revolving fund program to

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ensure that we make progress
updating our water and

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wastewater infrastructure.
Fully half of those dollars are

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available as grants and fully
forgivable loans.

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In as you mentioned at the
beginning, Sean I worked in the

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00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:17,200
srf program when I first worked
at the Department of

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Environmental Management and
During that time period, I can

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remember looking at the needs,
we had over twenty year period

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and realizing we just didn't
have enough money to meet.

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Those needs.
Never in the history of my 25

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years working in the
environmental Arena.

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Have we had this much money
devoted to making water and

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00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:40,700
wastewater infrastructure
improvements as we have today.

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So that's that's the good news
we, that's encouraging.

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00:17:45,100 --> 00:17:47,300
Yeah, that's really good.
That's really good.

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I mean it's a whole host of
other things.

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00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:50,500
I could go on and on about, oh
yeah.

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00:17:50,500 --> 00:17:52,500
Well if I don't stop you, I
don't think I'll get a word in

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00:17:52,500 --> 00:17:56,300
edgewise.
So let me let me dive in here

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00:17:56,300 --> 00:17:58,600
because you cover a lot of
really great things here.

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00:18:02,900 --> 00:18:05,700
Today's podcast is sponsored by
Cascade environmental.

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00:18:05,700 --> 00:18:08,700
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278
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279
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completion.
Even when it comes to pfos

280
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contamination, their field
Personnel are experienced in the

281
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282
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283
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complete delineation of pfos

284
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contamination in soils and
groundwater and now their

285
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thermal Team is preparing for
their first field demonstration

286
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:35,800
of thermal pfos treatment.
If you'd like to learn more

287
00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:39,300
about Cascades pfos delineation
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288
00:18:39,700 --> 00:18:45,100
contact them at www.caucusnj.org
and v.com.

289
00:18:45,100 --> 00:18:54,700
That's www.krsna.org nve.com You
know, I just recently saw that

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00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:58,800
there's a big push here in
Indiana and I'm sure it's in the

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00:18:59,100 --> 00:19:03,100
other states as well to, you
know, really help communities

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00:19:03,300 --> 00:19:06,500
replace their lead pipes, you
know that are being used as

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00:19:06,500 --> 00:19:08,700
service, you know, supply lines
and stuff.

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00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:13,300
You know, I think this is
created a huge focus with the

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00:19:13,300 --> 00:19:16,200
EPA and other states, especially
around, like, Flint.

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00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:19,800
Michigan, was a huge issue that
popped up, and that wasn't

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00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,000
probably a big surprise, because
I'm sure there's a lot of other

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00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:24,200
communities.
Just like flat that's out there

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00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:28,000
that are struggling to like a
dress.

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00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:32,300
Like how do they actually reap?
You know, go about replacing all

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00:19:32,300 --> 00:19:35,500
these financially, it's a major
lift right?

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00:19:37,100 --> 00:19:39,900
You know, are there you talked
about the state revolving funds

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00:19:39,900 --> 00:19:42,000
having more money than ever
before?

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00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:46,600
But you know what, how fast can
that money be actually deployed

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00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:51,200
to local communities who need it
and and or maybe not every

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00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,100
there's some probably not.
Governmental agencies as well.

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00:19:54,100 --> 00:19:57,600
Like, you know, that are
privately, run utilities that

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00:19:57,600 --> 00:19:59,200
you know, are supplying large
communities.

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00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:01,600
That also need help because of
the old infrastructure that

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00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:04,600
they've adopted or taken over
from, you know, utility, you

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00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:06,900
know, I mean this valid before.
So how does that?

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00:20:06,900 --> 00:20:09,700
How's that going to work?
And how fast can people get this

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00:20:09,700 --> 00:20:12,000
money?
Well, the good news is, money's

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00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:15,200
already been delivered to States
across the country.

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00:20:15,500 --> 00:20:19,300
Okay, we devoted week
distributed more than four point

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00:20:19,300 --> 00:20:22,400
nine billion dollars through the
srf.

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00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:26,600
Capitalization grants to all 47
States, six tribes and

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00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:31,300
territories.
And so we're working to ensure

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00:20:31,300 --> 00:20:34,600
that that money is made
available and even more

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00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:37,100
specifically that their specific
pots.

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00:20:37,100 --> 00:20:41,300
So those communities that have a
need for lead service line

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00:20:41,300 --> 00:20:45,300
replacement, not every Community
has one but for those that do

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00:20:45,700 --> 00:20:48,300
that, they have an opportunity
to get it and if they're

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00:20:48,300 --> 00:20:53,000
disadvantaged communities, that
is to say they've just Some

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00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:55,300
communities either.
Just don't have the technical,

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00:20:55,300 --> 00:20:59,400
the managerial and financial
capacity and getting through

327
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:03,700
that loan application process is
a big lift for them.

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00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,900
So what providing a hundred
million dollars?

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00:21:06,900 --> 00:21:09,900
A hundred fifty million dollars
in technical assistance?

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00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,700
Just help get those grants
written for them.

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00:21:12,700 --> 00:21:15,500
On your contractor.
Somebody to do that for them,

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00:21:15,500 --> 00:21:16,800
right?
Exactly.

333
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:21,800
Let's get them in the system and
help to fund this in.

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00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:28,300
So Money is available.
It's it's out there today and we

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00:21:28,300 --> 00:21:31,800
know that it's not a One-Shot
deal 20:23.

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00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:37,800
We've got money out, the door
2024 2025 and 2026 and each

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00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:42,200
distribution of funding that we
send out states have a two-year

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00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,800
period for delivering those
dollars to communities

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00:21:46,100 --> 00:21:50,900
throughout their states.
And I will say, and the srf

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00:21:50,900 --> 00:21:53,900
program in the years I've worked
as Has been just a tremendous

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00:21:53,900 --> 00:21:58,500
resource for communities.
As I mentioned, fully half the

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00:21:58,500 --> 00:22:02,500
funding is for Grants or
forgivable loans, but the other

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00:22:02,500 --> 00:22:06,000
half of the funding is at rates
that are better than Market

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00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:10,200
rates and these days with
marker, it's going up fluctuate.

345
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:11,200
Yeah.
That's a good thing.

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00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,100
It's really important.
Yeah, that's a good thing.

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00:22:14,100 --> 00:22:17,400
I mean yeah.
I think that's where a lot of

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00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,700
the local, you know, states are
wanting to help these

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00:22:19,700 --> 00:22:21,600
communities.
And as long as that money is

350
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:23,700
sitting there, that's going to
To really help them Advance

351
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,100
these these, this infrastructure
getting replaced.

352
00:22:27,100 --> 00:22:31,400
I really like that, you know,
you talked about the proposed,

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00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:35,300
pfos drinking water limits that
are you know been released for

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00:22:35,300 --> 00:22:38,100
those six compounds.
You know what has been the

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00:22:38,100 --> 00:22:40,800
initial feedback from?
You know, the public utilities

356
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,300
or the regulated Community or
environmental groups so far?

357
00:22:43,300 --> 00:22:45,400
I mean, because it's only been
out for about a month now,

358
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,600
right?
So Any feedback so far?

359
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:52,700
Well initial feedback from some
words.

360
00:22:52,700 --> 00:22:55,100
What took you so long?
Yeah well I was going to ask

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00:22:55,100 --> 00:22:59,300
that question next, right?
I mean it's been, it's been

362
00:22:59,300 --> 00:23:05,800
several years ten or so easy.
And so there was a recognition

363
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,300
and I will say, is a state
director.

364
00:23:08,300 --> 00:23:12,200
I participated in a lot of
conversations with my friends

365
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:16,800
from Michigan, who's been in the
lead in pfos as well.

366
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:23,100
As other states, that already
put in place, standards that

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00:23:23,100 --> 00:23:25,700
require.
They're both their Wastewater

368
00:23:25,700 --> 00:23:30,400
discharges in their Drinking
Water Systems to do stuff to, to

369
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,900
do this and and and Tuda to
address people us.

370
00:23:33,900 --> 00:23:39,400
And not only that but State
states have gone out and tested

371
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,800
their systems to try to figure
out well, how much pfos is in

372
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:46,600
our systems and and
organizations like the Ohio

373
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:48,700
River?
And Tatian commission have

374
00:23:48,700 --> 00:23:52,700
already been out in the waters,
trying to get a sense of what

375
00:23:52,700 --> 00:23:57,700
the ambient water quality is
like in terms of pfos levels.

376
00:23:57,700 --> 00:24:01,300
So yeah, a lot of states were
said to us.

377
00:24:01,300 --> 00:24:05,200
Well, it's time, that's good.
That you're finally coming out

378
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:10,800
with this rulemaking other
reactions across the board.

379
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:16,000
There is a recognition that the,
the numbers would come out with,

380
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:21,700
which if level detection for
parts per trillion is lower than

381
00:24:21,700 --> 00:24:27,100
probably, any of the other
standards that are out there

382
00:24:27,100 --> 00:24:29,600
today.
There's also a recognition that

383
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:35,500
over time science has given us a
better understanding of the

384
00:24:35,500 --> 00:24:41,000
effects of pfos, on our, our
systems, our human systems.

385
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:45,700
And therefore, it's important to
regulate down to those levels to

386
00:24:45,700 --> 00:24:52,300
ensure that the Water that
people are consuming is is clear

387
00:24:52,300 --> 00:24:57,600
from this and their Technologies
available to put in place to

388
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,000
deal with it.
Yeah, yeah.

389
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,600
I mean, yeah, it's no sense in
creating a, you know, a cleanup

390
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:06,500
level.
They can't be achieved through

391
00:25:06,500 --> 00:25:09,800
treatment Technologies and, you
know, today, I mean, it's a, I

392
00:25:09,808 --> 00:25:14,000
mean, I've been looking and
reading and watching this unfold

393
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,800
over the past few, you know,
year and a half two years now.

394
00:25:16,900 --> 00:25:20,200
We did with everything that's
really happening around pfos but

395
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:22,900
it's really been going on for
quite some time as we kind of

396
00:25:22,900 --> 00:25:27,300
mentioned.
I mean, you know, tell me your

397
00:25:27,300 --> 00:25:31,100
take on, did you see that movie?
Dark waters, you know, I did

398
00:25:31,100 --> 00:25:32,900
not.
Are you kidding me?

399
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:38,200
I just Bruno.
You have to watch that movie.

400
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:44,500
I think your eyes will be quite
open to some of the realities.

401
00:25:44,500 --> 00:25:46,800
That is a true story.
So you're going to get

402
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,200
Perspective of this, in a way
that might really impact you.

403
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,900
I think in a positive light.
I think I really highly

404
00:25:52,900 --> 00:25:55,600
recommend it.
Well, I will watch it just

405
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,800
because you asked and because
it's a slightly embarrassing to

406
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:00,700
say.
I haven't when so many other

407
00:26:00,700 --> 00:26:06,700
people have it's fantastic.
You know, we actually had Robert

408
00:26:06,700 --> 00:26:12,700
blot who's the attorney on the
show and it was just he was just

409
00:26:12,900 --> 00:26:18,400
fantastic, you know, efforts
that he has put in To protecting

410
00:26:18,700 --> 00:26:23,500
you know local citizens and from
exposure have been remarkable.

411
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,500
You know.
He and to me he needs a Nobel

412
00:26:26,500 --> 00:26:29,500
Peace Prize as you know provided
given to this man for what he's

413
00:26:29,500 --> 00:26:34,800
done to support the cause here.
But you know, there's a long

414
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,500
period of time that you know,
the actual epidemiology data has

415
00:26:38,500 --> 00:26:41,900
been out there and, you know,
I'm glad that the EPA has

416
00:26:41,900 --> 00:26:43,800
finally come out with these
rules.

417
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:49,000
Are these proposed levels?
I'm not sure that you feel like

418
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:53,200
we could go and add more to this
as far as more chemicals.

419
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,500
You know there's thousands and
thousands of these chemicals out

420
00:26:56,500 --> 00:27:00,400
there, I'm curious.
What is the epa's purse, you

421
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,700
know, approach or perspective of
just having six?

422
00:27:03,700 --> 00:27:05,200
Do they think if I just get
sick?

423
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,200
So I'm going to get a whole
bunch of other ones in the mix.

424
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,800
If I'm just monitoring for 6 or,
or if I have to treat to that

425
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:14,500
level, I'm going to be treating
all the other ones out as well.

426
00:27:14,500 --> 00:27:18,200
I mean, because there are a lot
of chemicals that we don't know

427
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:19,800
a lot of information about yet,
right.

428
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:23,700
And I think I'm just curious
what epa's approaches to just

429
00:27:23,700 --> 00:27:26,500
only doing 64 right now. 22,
thoughts.

430
00:27:26,500 --> 00:27:29,800
One is, we want to make sure and
we're required to it's part of

431
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:35,200
our rulemaking process to ensure
that the science is pointing

432
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,500
this out.
So that any regulation we put in

433
00:27:37,500 --> 00:27:43,000
place is defensible and for
those six, we feel we've got

434
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:49,100
great scientific evidence that
shows The, we need to treat at

435
00:27:49,100 --> 00:27:53,600
the levels that we are putting
in the proposed rule.

436
00:27:54,100 --> 00:27:58,000
But if so, that's one thing.
The other thing is, as you

437
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:03,000
mentioned, when you treat for
pfos, often times, you remove

438
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:07,400
more than one type of pfos and
that's kind of reflected in the

439
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:14,000
regulation or proposing.
So we understand that the

440
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:19,700
technology that's used to treat.
For pfos removes not just pifo

441
00:28:19,700 --> 00:28:24,200
or p''f fos but a variety of
other pfos as well.

442
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:29,100
So we're expecting that will
capture more as we treat the

443
00:28:29,100 --> 00:28:33,400
third thing and so that was a
really important Insight.

444
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:37,900
Sean that this is this
technology will remove more.

445
00:28:37,900 --> 00:28:42,300
The other thing is the way we
structured, the rule pfoa and

446
00:28:42,300 --> 00:28:46,300
pfos are are regulated
individually.

447
00:28:46,500 --> 00:28:50,700
But We've got the four others
that were regulating as a

448
00:28:50,700 --> 00:28:54,900
mixture.
So it'll be easier as the

449
00:28:54,900 --> 00:28:58,800
science progresses.
And as we understand more to I

450
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:04,600
think add that all the other
constituents in as we go.

451
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:09,800
And we believe we'll be treating
for those other compounds with

452
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:11,700
the technology.
We've got that.

453
00:29:11,700 --> 00:29:14,700
We put in place at systems
around the country.

454
00:29:14,700 --> 00:29:19,100
So a variety of Reasons that
we're starting with six science.

455
00:29:19,100 --> 00:29:23,300
First follow the science, follow
the law, make sure defensible.

456
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,900
Then secondly, we know the
technology will remove it and

457
00:29:26,900 --> 00:29:30,000
third.
We're building a rule in a way

458
00:29:30,100 --> 00:29:34,400
that helps make it possible to
add others as we learn more.

459
00:29:34,500 --> 00:29:36,700
Well, that's kind of what I was
getting ready to ask.

460
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,800
Is this new proposed rule, good.
Once it's in place because

461
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:43,100
eventually, you know, it will
become a rule at some point.

462
00:29:43,100 --> 00:29:45,500
You know, once you get all the
feedback and you evaluate this,

463
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:50,300
will it Will there be a
mechanism to be able to add new

464
00:29:50,300 --> 00:29:55,200
compounds that are become?
You know, you know that we that

465
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:59,300
we become aware of right that
are more toxic or things like

466
00:29:59,300 --> 00:30:03,200
that that are going to have
negative effects to add them to

467
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:07,500
the rule and in a more more
quickly, you know, expedited

468
00:30:07,500 --> 00:30:09,000
fashion.
So to speak, instead of this

469
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:14,800
protracted review process, well
I won't promise that there won't

470
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:19,500
be a review process.
I'm sure that's the one thing

471
00:30:19,500 --> 00:30:23,800
I've learned is that the process
is extensive and there's good

472
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,400
reasons for that, and that's all
defensible.

473
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:32,100
But yes, the idea would be that
when we put in place, this

474
00:30:32,100 --> 00:30:36,400
system, that will be able to do
this more expeditiously than we

475
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,700
might otherwise do.
Because we'd be adding to the

476
00:30:39,700 --> 00:30:45,000
mixture if you will.
Some of the, you know, little I

477
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:49,100
guess less talked about Aspects
of the proposed rule that can

478
00:30:49,100 --> 00:30:55,700
strike me is that, you know,
there is this concept of if pfos

479
00:30:55,700 --> 00:31:01,000
is a toxic, not a hazardous
waste, but a listed toxic

480
00:31:01,100 --> 00:31:03,900
chemical is under cercla.
How does that affect the

481
00:31:03,900 --> 00:31:08,100
treatment disposal process of
the media for the end users of,

482
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,800
you know, that are processing
and treating these chemicals out

483
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,000
of the out of the water whose
responsibility is that going to

484
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,700
rely you know real be you know
to do that.

485
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:21,000
That effectively I mean do you
envision also pfos chemicals

486
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:25,300
becoming you know, hazardous
wastes in a way like you know,

487
00:31:25,300 --> 00:31:27,400
down the road and right now it's
not.

488
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:31,200
But well that's a whole Snowball
Effect of new additional

489
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:36,400
regulatory implications for for
operators and managers of these

490
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:40,900
types of chemicals.
I expect that these these issues

491
00:31:40,900 --> 00:31:44,900
will require us to think about
how we're we're dealing with

492
00:31:44,900 --> 00:31:46,600
this.
We're finding pfos.

493
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:50,400
In just about every place where,
right?

494
00:31:50,700 --> 00:31:55,300
And, and you're right.
The question is what about pfos

495
00:31:55,300 --> 00:31:58,900
and biosolids?
What about the land app of

496
00:31:58,900 --> 00:32:03,700
biosolids.
A major way of disposing of

497
00:32:03,700 --> 00:32:08,700
biosolids about biosolids.
It's critical for municipalities

498
00:32:09,100 --> 00:32:13,400
to be able to do this land
application and we recognize

499
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,400
that, which is why we're going
to be working with our partners.

500
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:21,500
I talk About Partnerships in the
beginning, the partners at the

501
00:32:21,500 --> 00:32:24,300
National Association of Clean
Water agencies.

502
00:32:24,300 --> 00:32:28,900
The municipalities that are
tasked with cleaning our water

503
00:32:28,900 --> 00:32:34,400
to think about the effects of
pfos and biosolids and figure

504
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,800
out.
Well what's the best way to move

505
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:38,700
forward?
With those things?

506
00:32:38,700 --> 00:32:42,200
I think it will take us all
working together to think

507
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:46,200
through all of the
possibilities, because we've got

508
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:49,800
a list I mean we've got
chemicals that have been used

509
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:51,500
in.
Use the fact of lie in so many

510
00:32:51,500 --> 00:32:57,400
different ways in the country so
yes it would.

511
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,900
There are there implications in
a wide variety of areas?

512
00:33:00,900 --> 00:33:04,900
That's as you know we've already
dealt with pfos or been thinking

513
00:33:04,900 --> 00:33:08,500
about pfos and firefighting foam
for goodness sake and in

514
00:33:08,500 --> 00:33:12,900
Indiana, for example, they've
collected pfos Laden Fire Phone

515
00:33:13,100 --> 00:33:16,600
firefighting foam and their
disposing of that.

516
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:21,200
And so there has to be
substitutes in place and there

517
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,900
are a lot of issues to work
through, but but we're starting

518
00:33:24,900 --> 00:33:28,100
to tackle that and and one of
the big things to tackle that

519
00:33:28,100 --> 00:33:29,700
Michigan's already been working
on.

520
00:33:29,700 --> 00:33:32,700
For example, is is let's go to
the source.

521
00:33:32,700 --> 00:33:37,500
You know what, what what's, what
are the sources of pfos that are

522
00:33:37,500 --> 00:33:40,000
being discharged into our
Wastewater systems?

523
00:33:40,300 --> 00:33:41,800
And let's see if we can work
with those.

524
00:33:42,300 --> 00:33:46,100
Those entities to reduce their
loadings of pfos and or

525
00:33:46,100 --> 00:33:48,900
Wastewater.
Hands on the front end so that

526
00:33:48,900 --> 00:33:51,700
the biocells don't contain that
information.

527
00:33:51,700 --> 00:33:54,600
That's the ultimate way to
address this in Michigan.

528
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:59,600
They had electroplating
facilities where where they

529
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,900
identified, pfos loadings and
they've worked with those

530
00:34:02,900 --> 00:34:06,400
systems to reduce the loadings
of pfos into wastewater

531
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,199
treatment plants.
And so we're going to need to

532
00:34:08,199 --> 00:34:14,000
take a whole of agency approach
toward pfos from our office of

533
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,699
land and Emergency Management to
water.

534
00:34:16,900 --> 00:34:22,300
Two are in other areas to figure
out how to deal with this, in a

535
00:34:22,308 --> 00:34:26,500
way that doesn't transfer the
problem from one entity to with

536
00:34:26,500 --> 00:34:32,300
the other.
Did, you know, e-tank is the

537
00:34:32,300 --> 00:34:34,600
only environmental Rental
Equipment company in the

538
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:38,300
industry that offers a 100%
certified clean guarantee and no

539
00:34:38,300 --> 00:34:40,699
additional cost.
Well, this gives customers the

540
00:34:40,699 --> 00:34:43,199
Peace of Mind knowing that
container contents from the

541
00:34:43,199 --> 00:34:46,100
previous renter isn't going to
cross contaminate the contents

542
00:34:46,100 --> 00:34:49,400
of the current And potentially
cause liability concerns.

543
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:51,800
You know.
E-tank also provides a

544
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,800
one-of-a-kind complete
maintenance program for all its

545
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:58,600
rental items including liquid,
tight roll off containers, fluid

546
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:02,800
transfer pumps and filtration
system components to learn more

547
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,700
about the types of containers,
of pumps, e-tank supplies.

548
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,200
Check out their website at
www.esa.int.

549
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,600
So, the next time you are faced
with an environmentally

550
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:16,800
challenging project, give e-tank
a call to help solve your

551
00:35:16,900 --> 00:35:23,300
Problem, it's just that easy.
And I'm definitely commend the

552
00:35:23,300 --> 00:35:27,600
EPA for getting this.
This new rule out, this proposed

553
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:31,200
rule for the MCL is fantastic.
Are you guys in also in the

554
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,300
planning stages of you know
submitting a new proposed rule

555
00:35:34,300 --> 00:35:39,900
for Wastewater discharge we
don't have a rule in process now

556
00:35:39,900 --> 00:35:45,200
but we did recently come out
with guidance for States and and

557
00:35:46,300 --> 00:35:50,400
to say here are the things you
could do that would help with

558
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:52,400
this.
And one of the Asians was the

559
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:56,400
Michigan system of working with
their pre-treating systems.

560
00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:01,200
The other was, yeah, you could
put in place limits and and

561
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:04,000
here's how you could do it.
And here are the mechanisms that

562
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,900
would be legally defensible.
So, so you push it to the

563
00:36:06,900 --> 00:36:10,300
state's, push you to the states,
to let them implement the, the

564
00:36:10,300 --> 00:36:15,700
actual limits under their npdes
permit process and and give the

565
00:36:15,700 --> 00:36:19,400
control a little bit to them to
help manage the exposure in the

566
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:20,600
waters, the state.
Yeah.

567
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,900
And at the same time, We are, of
course, working on water quality

568
00:36:23,900 --> 00:36:29,700
standards, and we'll be doing
that as well for, for pfos and

569
00:36:29,700 --> 00:36:33,300
people.
So a variety of tools as are

570
00:36:33,300 --> 00:36:36,000
there anything else, any other
little nuggets in the proposed

571
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:39,000
rule that you know, we should be
aware of or hadn't really talked

572
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:43,600
about that's important to this
Coast for some who work in the

573
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:45,800
municipalities.
They're going to look at it and

574
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:49,600
say, wow, four parts per
trillion but that's solo how we

575
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:53,000
supposed to comply with that.
When that's the level of

576
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:58,000
detection and what's the what's
the way that the agency's doing

577
00:36:58,000 --> 00:36:59,900
that?
One of the things I was really

578
00:36:59,900 --> 00:37:04,100
proud of was the fact that the
agency thought about that and

579
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:09,100
they first of all they're going
to put in place requirements for

580
00:37:09,100 --> 00:37:11,800
monitoring.
But that for communities that

581
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:15,600
have already been monitoring for
pfos under the you see Mr. And

582
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,700
in other ways they'll be able to
use that data.

583
00:37:18,700 --> 00:37:20,700
So they won't have to reinvent
the wheel.

584
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,500
That's one thing.
Which will help reduce costs.

585
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:27,300
But the other is that compliance
will be based on a rolling

586
00:37:27,300 --> 00:37:32,800
annual average.
And, and anything that is listed

587
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:37,500
below, the four parts per
trillion will count when they do

588
00:37:37,500 --> 00:37:44,300
the analysis and the analysis of
compliance in a way, that

589
00:37:44,300 --> 00:37:48,100
doesn't just automatically,
throw a municipality in the

590
00:37:48,100 --> 00:37:53,400
non-compliance with the, with
the So I'm really proud of the

591
00:37:53,400 --> 00:38:00,000
fact that we thought through how
can this be effective for a

592
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:03,400
municipality that's putting in
place the treatment to deal with

593
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,200
this stuff.
Yeah, you got to feel for these

594
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,000
guys, to be honest with you,
they're not the ones that are

595
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:12,400
causing the problem.
I mean, let's, you know, and

596
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:15,800
here's my biggest, I think
frustration of a lot of this is

597
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:21,100
the fact that we're going to, we
need these facilities to improve

598
00:38:21,100 --> 00:38:25,400
their a capability.
So the consumers are not exposed

599
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,400
but the end of the day.
What's happening is is those

600
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:32,600
costs are getting passed down to
the consumers to deal with this

601
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,700
you know treatment technology
and infrastructure that needs to

602
00:38:35,700 --> 00:38:38,700
be built to support, you know,
safe drinking water.

603
00:38:39,100 --> 00:38:43,400
All the while Hoot, the polluter
is not getting penalized or at

604
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,500
least, you know, having to pay
for these things at the moment

605
00:38:46,500 --> 00:38:49,500
right now.
And I think most people in, a

606
00:38:49,500 --> 00:38:51,600
lot of the communities are
really struggling with this.

607
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:55,600
Whole process and why, you know,
like big companies like, you

608
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:57,900
know, Du Pont and chemours.
And those guys who are, you

609
00:38:57,908 --> 00:39:00,200
know, and who and others, right?
I mean there's others, right?

610
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,000
They're not being addressed.
They're not being required to

611
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,500
pay for these type of upgrades
for these local communities, at

612
00:39:07,500 --> 00:39:10,700
least in a way that seems, you
know, Fair.

613
00:39:11,300 --> 00:39:14,000
Yeah.
And let me just say we recognize

614
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:20,100
that and that concern and that's
why partly why under the

615
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:22,000
bipartisan infrastructure Sure
law.

616
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:29,500
We've got devoted dollar amount
for these allowing our Drinking

617
00:39:29,500 --> 00:39:31,700
Water Systems to put in place
these Technologies.

618
00:39:31,700 --> 00:39:33,400
So there's money available
number one.

619
00:39:33,700 --> 00:39:37,300
But number two, there's a
recognition that you're right.

620
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:42,400
The, where's the part that the
polluter has it in this?

621
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:48,200
And therefore we are looking at
pollution the polluters and

622
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,400
dealing with that with our
different mechanisms enforcement

623
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:56,600
in, Particular to ensure that
the polluters do pay and that

624
00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:01,700
the cost of compliance isn't
just shifted onto our residents

625
00:40:02,100 --> 00:40:08,800
as they as it has in other
situations, where you know, new

626
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:10,800
treatment has to be put in
place.

627
00:40:11,100 --> 00:40:15,000
Yeah I just feel like that is
the I guess the travesty of the

628
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:18,000
the situation where we see, I
mean granted I love the fact

629
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,900
that the infrastructure bills,
you know, allocating lots of

630
00:40:20,900 --> 00:40:22,500
money.
Millions and millions of

631
00:40:22,500 --> 00:40:24,100
dollars.
I mean I kind of looked at the

632
00:40:24,100 --> 00:40:29,800
allocation distribution for FY
2223 for you know these emerging

633
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:32,600
contaminants for disadvantaged
Community you know allotments

634
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:36,100
and it's great.
I mean you know Indiana is

635
00:40:36,100 --> 00:40:39,600
getting 26 million dollars, it
says here and you know and and a

636
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:40,800
lot of the other it's all broken
down.

637
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,400
It's really great information
and it's great to see that these

638
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,800
communities are getting funding
but I just scratch my head and

639
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:47,300
go.
Wow.

640
00:40:47,300 --> 00:40:51,900
But those polluters are not
really Paying what's for the

641
00:40:51,900 --> 00:40:55,400
damage they've caused and the
exposure to human health and

642
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:58,200
environment.
And and you know, there's a lot

643
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:00,700
of cancers and things like that
are being caused by these, you

644
00:41:00,700 --> 00:41:04,400
know acute and or you know,
chronic exposure, you know, it's

645
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:05,800
like, wow, what are we going to
do?

646
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:09,400
I mean I really like the cdep a
ramp up enforcement actions on

647
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:13,300
some of these polluters well
we're determined to do that and

648
00:41:13,300 --> 00:41:17,900
we're determined to address that
concern which is a legitimate

649
00:41:17,900 --> 00:41:20,200
one to ensure that we take
action.

650
00:41:20,500 --> 00:41:25,700
Where we've got real evidence
that many that there that

651
00:41:25,700 --> 00:41:31,600
there's been a polluter that's
caused the these problems.

652
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:37,100
And you know, I will say pfos,
is ubiquitous in our

653
00:41:37,100 --> 00:41:38,600
environment?
It's in the water.

654
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:40,700
It's in the land.
It's in a variety of other

655
00:41:40,700 --> 00:41:42,200
areas.
So you have to make sure that

656
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:46,200
you appropriately Engage The
enforcement tools that you've

657
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:49,200
got in a way that's defensible,
but that's what we're going to

658
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:51,300
do.
Well, like if it's listed in

659
00:41:51,300 --> 00:41:53,900
cercla under circle, is a toxic,
you know, chemical there.

660
00:41:53,900 --> 00:41:57,200
I mean, there are thousands of
thousands of these chemicals out

661
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:00,200
there, if we only have six,
there's a lot of, you know,

662
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:02,900
thousands that aren't going to
be listed that won't be quote,

663
00:42:02,900 --> 00:42:05,400
unquote attributable, to
enforcement action.

664
00:42:06,500 --> 00:42:09,600
I mean, I think the sooner that,
you know, the agency starts to

665
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:13,800
add these chemicals to the list,
it's going to ease up everything

666
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:16,700
to make you I think enforcement
action easier for, you know,

667
00:42:16,700 --> 00:42:19,900
these polluters for you guys for
with polluters because it

668
00:42:19,900 --> 00:42:22,100
currently Still like
unregulated, right?

669
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:24,500
And that the big challenge.
That's right.

670
00:42:24,500 --> 00:42:28,400
That's, that's exactly right.
So that is definitely the

671
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:29,800
challenge.
That's why we're trying to get

672
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,100
this rule out there before the
end of this year.

673
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:37,900
And that's why we will use the
existing framework to put in

674
00:42:37,900 --> 00:42:42,300
place as we get better science
on the others, put them into the

675
00:42:42,300 --> 00:42:46,000
mix and then we can take the
enforcement action that that we

676
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:49,900
need to take to ensure that it's
not just the citizens that are

677
00:42:49,900 --> 00:42:52,300
paying.
Pay for improvements to their

678
00:42:52,300 --> 00:42:56,600
water quality, but the polluter
that caused the problem also is

679
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:59,100
required to come up and help
pay.

680
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:01,200
Now, that's, that's good to
hear.

681
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:05,000
You know, how does the
unregulated contaminant

682
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:06,600
monitoring role?
Do you see Mr?

683
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:09,700
Work and should there be more
pfos chemicals added to that

684
00:43:09,700 --> 00:43:10,900
list?
I think currently there's like

685
00:43:10,900 --> 00:43:15,200
twenty nine on that list now.
And so my question with that,

686
00:43:15,300 --> 00:43:18,200
you know, monitoring program for
drinking water, you know,

687
00:43:18,300 --> 00:43:24,300
utilities and municipalities is
Is do they is that a quarterly

688
00:43:24,300 --> 00:43:27,800
monitoring program?
Is that a annual monitoring

689
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:29,200
program?
Is it?

690
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:33,500
You know what are the parameters
around when samples are

691
00:43:33,508 --> 00:43:37,800
collected?
You know, to be submitted for

692
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:42,300
evaluation, you know, in this
program and you so that way you

693
00:43:42,300 --> 00:43:45,200
guys can start understand and
track, you know, hey, we have an

694
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:48,200
impact in these communities with
these types of pfos.

695
00:43:48,500 --> 00:43:50,800
Yeah.
Let me start with the big

696
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:55,000
picture.
What, what is this whole rule?

697
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:59,500
Because a lot of people are not
aware, but as part of the, under

698
00:43:59,500 --> 00:44:04,600
the Safe Drinking Water Act EPA
has to implement Implement a

699
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:08,200
section of the The act that
requires a monitoring program

700
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:13,000
for unregulated contaminants,
and it requires that once every

701
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:17,700
five years we issue a list of
priority unregulated,

702
00:44:17,700 --> 00:44:21,700
contaminants, to be monitored by
certain Public Water Systems

703
00:44:21,700 --> 00:44:25,400
across the states.
The tribes, and territories in

704
00:44:25,700 --> 00:44:29,300
these contaminants may be
present in drinking water, but

705
00:44:29,300 --> 00:44:33,000
are not yet subject to EPA,
drinking water standards right

706
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:36,100
under this.
Rule EPA, Collects

707
00:44:36,300 --> 00:44:40,700
representative drinking water,
occurrence data to support our

708
00:44:40,700 --> 00:44:44,600
future Regulatory determinations
and assist in the development of

709
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:47,100
national primary drinking water
regulations.

710
00:44:47,100 --> 00:44:50,300
Like the proposed pfos were, all
right, right?

711
00:44:50,300 --> 00:44:53,500
And.
And for each cycle, right now,

712
00:44:53,500 --> 00:44:57,300
we're working on, you see mr5
for each cycle.

713
00:44:57,300 --> 00:45:03,900
We establish a new list of
contaminants for monitoring and

714
00:45:03,900 --> 00:45:09,100
specifies, which Systems are
required to monitor identifies

715
00:45:09,100 --> 00:45:16,100
sampling locations in defines
the analytical methods that we

716
00:45:16,100 --> 00:45:22,200
are to use, and the
administrator at the end of 2021

717
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:26,200
signed.
The, the fifth revision to the

718
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:28,600
unregulated monitoring
contaminated.

719
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:31,300
The content contaminant
monitoring rule.

720
00:45:31,300 --> 00:45:35,800
It's a mouthful.
So what what systems Going to be

721
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:41,300
participating in.
You see Mr. 5, so this is the

722
00:45:41,300 --> 00:45:44,800
way it works.
EPA, has must require all Public

723
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:48,600
Water Systems serving between
three thousand, three hundred

724
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:53,000
and ten thousand people to
Monitor and ensure that a

725
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:57,100
nationally representative sample
of systems that are serving

726
00:45:57,100 --> 00:46:03,000
fewer than 3000 monitor, 300
monitor for contaminants in in

727
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,700
future.
Oils.

728
00:46:05,900 --> 00:46:10,300
So anybody's serving a
population of more than 10,000

729
00:46:10,300 --> 00:46:14,300
people.
We call that a large system are

730
00:46:15,100 --> 00:46:17,900
responsible for participating in
this program.

731
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:22,200
Excuse me.
We anticipate a third of all

732
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:31,700
systems, will collect samples
between 2023 and 2025, and if we

733
00:46:31,700 --> 00:46:37,800
don't receive the Appropriations
we need In a given year, we

734
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:41,600
reduce the number of small
systems that will be asked to

735
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:47,700
perform monitoring.
So the way it looks right now is

736
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:53,800
in terms of small systems, those
are fewer than 3,300 will have

737
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:57,700
800 systems.
That collect samples, the

738
00:46:59,500 --> 00:47:02,900
somewhere in between 3302
10,000.

739
00:47:03,100 --> 00:47:05,900
We got about 5,000.
Systems.

740
00:47:05,900 --> 00:47:12,400
That will be collecting samples
and then large systems of 10,000

741
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:22,400
and over will be looking at 4364
systems and there's a huge bunch

742
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:27,600
of pfos chemicals.
That will be looking at will be

743
00:47:28,700 --> 00:47:33,300
collecting samples at entry
points to the distribution

744
00:47:33,300 --> 00:47:36,500
system at a water.
System is that?

745
00:47:36,500 --> 00:47:38,600
How often?
How often would that happen?

746
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:41,300
Is it once a year or twice, a
year quarterly?

747
00:47:41,300 --> 00:47:46,400
What does that look like?
Yeah, the this systems must

748
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:52,400
monitor four times during a
consecutive 12-month, monitoring

749
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:57,500
period, okay?
And and they events must occur

750
00:47:58,100 --> 00:48:01,500
three months apart.
Okay, so poorly that's good,

751
00:48:01,500 --> 00:48:02,900
that's good.
I mean, that that gives a

752
00:48:02,900 --> 00:48:05,800
representative seasonal.
Action.

753
00:48:06,300 --> 00:48:08,900
That's, you know, I think
representative of the you know

754
00:48:08,900 --> 00:48:11,400
what the normal drinking water
intake would look like.

755
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:14,000
That's good.
I should I should clarify Shawn.

756
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:18,900
That's for surface water systems
or groundwater systems that are

757
00:48:18,900 --> 00:48:21,400
under the influence of surface
water.

758
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:25,900
But groundwater systems are
little different, those systems

759
00:48:25,900 --> 00:48:30,300
monitor two times during a
consecutive 12-month monitoring

760
00:48:30,300 --> 00:48:34,300
period and we can guess why we
write that the answer to that

761
00:48:34,300 --> 00:48:36,600
is.
Well, it's a Water system that

762
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:40,800
the kind of seasonal changes
that you see in surface water

763
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:44,900
aren't as apparent in a
groundwater system.

764
00:48:44,900 --> 00:48:46,800
Yeah, that makes sense.
That makes sense.

765
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:54,400
Okay, if you're listening to
this podcast I'll bet you may be

766
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:56,800
thinking how can I level up in
advance my career?

767
00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:59,800
If you want to get that
promotion, increase your

768
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:02,700
regulatory knowledge gain.
Professional recognition and

769
00:49:02,700 --> 00:49:05,200
earn more money.
Then it's time to obtain a new

770
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:08,100
An industry credential from The
Institute of hazardous material

771
00:49:08,100 --> 00:49:10,600
management.
The I hmm offers eight

772
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:13,100
credentials that are antsy
approved for students

773
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:16,400
experience, skilled employees
without a degree and for the

774
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:19,400
degree, professional looking to
set themselves apart from the

775
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:23,200
pack, their credentials, focus
on three main areas.

776
00:49:23,300 --> 00:49:25,600
Certified, hazardous material
manager, the see.

777
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:28,000
Hmm.
The certified dangerous goods,

778
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:32,000
professional the CD GP, and the
certified safety and health

779
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:33,600
manager.
The CSS.

780
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:37,600
Hm, if you And I, hmm,
credential professional.

781
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:41,200
Then you will be in the top 1%
of your profession and your

782
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:42,900
credential will have a global
reach.

783
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:46,300
Check out their programs, they
offer at www.ihs.gov/scholarship

784
00:49:53,300 --> 00:49:58,300
today.
Well, that's good to hear.

785
00:49:58,300 --> 00:50:01,700
So so the you seem R5 rule
that's out now.

786
00:50:01,700 --> 00:50:05,600
It's got about twenty nine or so
pfos chemicals.

787
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:07,600
I mean it was funny.
It was like they were all pfos

788
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:11,100
chemicals except lithium so that
was that was like okay you guys

789
00:50:11,100 --> 00:50:13,700
are really going all in on those
contaminants that are

790
00:50:13,700 --> 00:50:18,100
unregulated.
You know, I think when this data

791
00:50:18,100 --> 00:50:21,000
comes back to you guys I mean
are what type of like data

792
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:23,500
analytics?
Are you guys running on all this

793
00:50:23,500 --> 00:50:26,200
information?
Because one of the things I was

794
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:30,700
looking at on the The website on
epa's website is that you guys

795
00:50:31,100 --> 00:50:37,400
are collecting so much data.
So much data that, I believe,

796
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:41,800
you know, geez, it would be
really great to see some Trend

797
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:46,400
analysis, some dashboard, you
know, some Community, if you

798
00:50:46,408 --> 00:50:48,600
could drill into a local
community, you could see

799
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:50,800
results.
I mean, so much of that

800
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:54,400
information you have at your, in
your, you know, databases

801
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:57,500
somewhere.
It would be, wonderful to see

802
00:50:57,500 --> 00:50:59,600
some analytics done on that
stuff.

803
00:50:59,700 --> 00:51:02,600
Well, and we will do analytics
on it.

804
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:06,000
The data will be used.
Is to support our regulatory,

805
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:08,000
determination.
That's the whole reason for you.

806
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:11,700
See, Mr. Is, let's look at the
data and then make a

807
00:51:11,707 --> 00:51:15,600
determination about whether we
should regulate these chemicals.

808
00:51:15,900 --> 00:51:19,900
And so we'll be using that data
will be sifting through.

809
00:51:19,900 --> 00:51:23,700
It will be analyzing it and so
that we can make a determination

810
00:51:23,700 --> 00:51:26,400
about whether or not, we should
be regulating that remember,

811
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:28,600
there are unregulated currently,
right?

812
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:31,800
Yeah.
In addition to that the results

813
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:35,400
from the you see Mr. R.
Stored in.

814
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:39,100
What we call our national
contaminant occurrence database

815
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:43,700
for drinking water, which is
good, because that means that

816
00:51:43,700 --> 00:51:48,200
the public can go take a look at
that as well.

817
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:52,300
And then, in addition to that,
there's a public notification

818
00:51:52,300 --> 00:51:57,000
rule that requires that all
systems notify, their customers

819
00:51:57,100 --> 00:52:01,300
of the availability of the
results from this data, no later

820
00:52:01,300 --> 00:52:04,300
than 12 months after the results
are known.

821
00:52:04,700 --> 00:52:08,900
So, we use it for our regulatory
determinations, but the public

822
00:52:08,900 --> 00:52:15,700
can use it as well, and we'll do
the analysis necessary to

823
00:52:15,700 --> 00:52:19,300
determine whether or not we need
to regulate these things.

824
00:52:19,300 --> 00:52:24,200
But the cut consumer, I think it
kind of empowers them to say,

825
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:27,600
oh, wow.
Look, we do or don't have these

826
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:29,100
contaminants in our drinking
water.

827
00:52:29,100 --> 00:52:30,700
Yeah.
I mean, affected communities.

828
00:52:30,700 --> 00:52:35,300
Now that don't really have the,
the treatment utilities that are

829
00:52:35,300 --> 00:52:38,200
really treating, the
contaminants of pfos at levels

830
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:43,200
that, you know, would be safe.
They're relying on those Public

831
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:47,100
Utilities to prepare to provide
that data has publicly somehow

832
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:49,300
Just To See, Is it safe this
month?

833
00:52:49,300 --> 00:52:51,900
Or how is the treatment plant,
really operating?

834
00:52:51,900 --> 00:52:53,700
And I still need to drink
bottled water.

835
00:52:53,700 --> 00:52:56,800
I mean, there's all those kind
of concerns and I think more of

836
00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:00,200
a real-time access to the data
that people could, you know,

837
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:05,200
like glean.
Like the the The concern, the

838
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:06,900
exposure concern would be
really.

839
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:10,600
I think helpful for Citizens
know, I think you're right about

840
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:16,600
that and not only is that
important for Citizens, but

841
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:19,400
also, how would we get it out to
Citizens?

842
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:22,000
And as I mentioned, the
community water systems are

843
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:26,900
required to notify, the
customers of the availability of

844
00:53:26,908 --> 00:53:29,800
this.
But also, they're required to

845
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:33,600
report these results in their
consumer confidence report,

846
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:36,600
which I mean, some people don't
pay attention to but other

847
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:43,100
people really do even when those
can unregulated contaminants are

848
00:53:43,100 --> 00:53:46,100
detected.
And I will say we're also

849
00:53:46,100 --> 00:53:50,900
working on our consumer
confidence report rulemaking and

850
00:53:50,900 --> 00:53:55,300
one of the things that were we
will be doing on the consumer

851
00:53:55,300 --> 00:53:58,500
confidence report.
Rule is ensure that drinking

852
00:53:58,500 --> 00:54:01,700
water systems.
Don't just report it once a year

853
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:06,100
but do it twice a year.
So That any changes in the

854
00:54:06,100 --> 00:54:10,600
system can be identified for
residents in the system and they

855
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:14,100
understand better what they're
drinking Waters like.

856
00:54:14,300 --> 00:54:14,900
Yeah.
No.

857
00:54:14,900 --> 00:54:18,000
Yeah, that's that's great.
I mean, I'd like this that would

858
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:21,400
be fantastic.
I'm, you know, I do a bunch of,

859
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:25,900
you know, digital work.
Now, in our practice, I in my

860
00:54:25,900 --> 00:54:29,200
business that I'm working for.
And so we're all about data

861
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:33,000
analytics and doing high-level
Trend analysis of data.

862
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:37,100
And, and I see this This as a
huge opportunity for the EPA and

863
00:54:37,100 --> 00:54:39,700
work with Partners to maybe help
them, get that information out.

864
00:54:39,700 --> 00:54:44,200
So well, it's a critical data
analytics is critical for you

865
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:46,900
guys and it's critical here at
EPA.

866
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:52,100
We must understand what what the
data looks like.

867
00:54:52,100 --> 00:54:57,700
In order to put in place, the
regulations that we put in place

868
00:54:57,700 --> 00:54:59,700
in because they've got to be
defensible.

869
00:54:59,700 --> 00:55:02,000
We can't just throw a number out
there, right?

870
00:55:02,300 --> 00:55:04,200
And so we have a group of
people.

871
00:55:04,900 --> 00:55:07,700
Within the office of water,
called our office of Science and

872
00:55:07,700 --> 00:55:11,000
Technology, and those folks do
analyze the results.

873
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:14,000
In addition to that, they work
with our office of research and

874
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:16,800
development.
I will put in a shout out for

875
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:21,100
our friends at the office of
research and developments

876
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:26,400
location in Cincinnati Ohio.
They do a lot of work on lead,

877
00:55:26,500 --> 00:55:28,000
for example.
Okay.

878
00:55:28,300 --> 00:55:32,900
And then we've got we've got a
location up and Duluth Minnesota

879
00:55:32,900 --> 00:55:34,800
as well.
That does a lot of Of water

880
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:37,900
work.
So you're absolutely right data

881
00:55:37,900 --> 00:55:41,300
analytics, and Trend, analysis
of drinking water, such a great

882
00:55:41,300 --> 00:55:46,700
thing, to emphasize, and, and we
must do that in order to defend

883
00:55:46,700 --> 00:55:48,900
the rules that we put in place.
Yeah.

884
00:55:49,300 --> 00:55:51,700
I agree.
I mean, we create dashboards for

885
00:55:51,700 --> 00:55:54,900
our customers and Trend analysis
come in, and they can see the

886
00:55:54,900 --> 00:55:58,300
operating systems and that's the
kind of stuff that really helps

887
00:55:58,300 --> 00:56:00,900
make decisions and helps
operators, manage their

888
00:56:00,900 --> 00:56:02,800
business.
And so I think just having that

889
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:05,900
data for consumers is see to be
so valuable.

890
00:56:05,900 --> 00:56:09,300
But I want to, I want to Pivot
another question here for you.

891
00:56:09,300 --> 00:56:12,300
Just, you know, we're on this
topic about the new proposed

892
00:56:12,300 --> 00:56:17,000
rule is the EPA considering
establishing classes for the

893
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:20,800
pfos chemicals.
Like pcbs are kind of, you know,

894
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:22,500
the president's kind of set it
that way, you know.

895
00:56:22,500 --> 00:56:25,600
So that's already in a way, you
know, to account.

896
00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:29,300
For some of these long chains,
short chain type, you know,

897
00:56:29,300 --> 00:56:33,000
variants of the of the various,
you know, pfos chemicals to

898
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:36,300
really help.
Protect our citizens, and we're

899
00:56:36,300 --> 00:56:38,700
doing a lot of thinking about
that, Sean.

900
00:56:38,900 --> 00:56:43,500
I think it's a an insightful
question and we are thinking

901
00:56:43,500 --> 00:56:46,300
about that and that's part of
the reason for the restructure,

902
00:56:46,300 --> 00:56:48,300
the rule as is with the
mixtures.

903
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:51,100
Yeah.
Aside from the first, the pifo

904
00:56:51,100 --> 00:56:57,100
and pfos that that helps
establish that and that that

905
00:56:57,100 --> 00:57:01,100
class is certainly something.
We've been thinking through.

906
00:57:01,500 --> 00:57:04,200
Gotcha, no, that's good to hear
because I think it could help.

907
00:57:04,300 --> 00:57:11,100
help, you know, manage this,
this this situation More exactly

908
00:57:11,100 --> 00:57:13,200
down the road.
I mean, there's so many of these

909
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:15,600
these types of chemicals.
How do you really cover it?

910
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:20,800
All right, I mean what if we say
Hey you know, add these up, get

911
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:23,000
your total.
Now, you got a problem, you

912
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:25,400
know, you know, now you need to
start treating mean, I think

913
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:28,200
that could be a really good
effective way to address some of

914
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:30,000
this.
Although, you know, let's let

915
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:32,500
the science and then, you know,
some of the smart kids in the

916
00:57:32,500 --> 00:57:35,400
room, know to kind of figure
this out, but I really feel like

917
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:39,100
that could be a good option for
people and that's essentially

918
00:57:39,100 --> 00:57:43,300
what our mixture.
Provision does in the rule.

919
00:57:43,300 --> 00:57:49,000
It's exactly that it assigns a
numeric value.

920
00:57:49,500 --> 00:57:55,000
Not based on the and there's a
an interesting formula in the

921
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:58,200
rule that helps to do that for
that mixture.

922
00:57:58,200 --> 00:57:59,500
Yeah.
It was good.

923
00:57:59,700 --> 00:58:01,500
Yeah, it's kind of cool.
You kind of laying the

924
00:58:01,500 --> 00:58:05,400
groundwork in a way.
Yeah, that's that's kind of what

925
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:08,800
I kind of took out of that.
So that was really good.

926
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:11,700
See what else did I have for
you?

927
00:58:15,700 --> 00:58:19,600
Do you feel like, I mean, you
know, hey, 50 billion dollars

928
00:58:19,600 --> 00:58:21,800
for the bipartisan
infrastructure Bill.

929
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:24,700
There was like 5 billion
allocated to small disadvantaged

930
00:58:24,700 --> 00:58:29,000
communities, you know, is there
enough funding to go around for

931
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:32,600
all the states and to address
all the issues you think, or

932
00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:37,300
what you need more?
I will as as a person who

933
00:58:37,300 --> 00:58:43,100
understands the needs out there
acknowledge that, there's always

934
00:58:43,700 --> 00:58:48,700
more that we could do both.
To this, I will say blown away

935
00:58:48,900 --> 00:58:53,400
this it I've never seen so many
dollars devoted to this when I

936
00:58:53,408 --> 00:58:56,600
was in Indiana, the typical cap
grant that we got through.

937
00:58:56,600 --> 00:59:02,800
Srf was 18 million dollars for
drinking water and 32 million

938
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:06,600
dollars for Waste Water projects
on a yearly basis.

939
00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:11,200
This, this is so much higher
than that.

940
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:17,100
I know that we have needs too.
Soak up that money at, there's

941
00:59:17,100 --> 00:59:21,000
no doubt about it and will want
more for sure.

942
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:27,500
And I just, I understand that
the challenges that communities

943
00:59:27,500 --> 00:59:33,100
face will be tough and that it
will come at a cost to insure

944
00:59:33,100 --> 00:59:35,300
that we have safe and clean
water.

945
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:40,400
And part of that cost will be
will be paid for through the the

946
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:44,400
money in the bipartisan
infrastructure law and then the

947
00:59:44,500 --> 00:59:48,300
the community, Will chip in, and
then we hope the polluter pays

948
00:59:48,300 --> 00:59:51,700
helps with the P5 stuff.
Is there enough?

949
00:59:51,900 --> 00:59:57,900
There's never enough, but we've
made a really incredible down

950
00:59:57,900 --> 01:00:00,900
payment now.
That's really great to see that,

951
01:00:01,300 --> 01:00:05,700
you know, the EPA and Congress
have allocated this, this

952
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:09,700
bipartisan funding for these
types of projects.

953
01:00:09,700 --> 01:00:12,000
I mean, they're so so needed.
I mean, you know our, our

954
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:16,500
infrastructure, you know, for
Wastewater ER, and sewers, and

955
01:00:16,500 --> 01:00:19,600
things like that and and around
our country, in a lot of

956
01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:22,400
locations, there's just, you
know, it's so outdated.

957
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:25,900
It's, you know, 100 years old,
or more some, in some places or,

958
01:00:25,900 --> 01:00:28,800
you know, or they're just
challenged like, you know, it's

959
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:33,500
been 1950 design and, you know,
things are breaking down and now

960
01:00:33,500 --> 01:00:37,000
the capital costs are more than
the tax base, that, you know,

961
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:39,100
can even fund to fix it because,
you know, things have happened,

962
01:00:39,100 --> 01:00:41,400
right?
I mean, Dad are those are real

963
01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:43,600
issues.
I think most of some of our

964
01:00:43,607 --> 01:00:45,200
communities are facing so it's
great to see.

965
01:00:45,300 --> 01:00:48,900
It you guys have put together
and with the by demonstration

966
01:00:48,900 --> 01:00:53,800
put this together, so kudos to
the EPA and Congress for that

967
01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:58,600
really appreciate all that.
Well Bruno you know, hey what

968
01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:00,800
else is there?
I mean we've covered some good

969
01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:04,200
ground here, super excited that
you came on the show today.

970
01:01:04,500 --> 01:01:06,700
I mean, I don't know where else
we could go here.

971
01:01:06,700 --> 01:01:09,600
I mean, we could probably get
into some weeds if we needed to,

972
01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:13,400
but we might want to, you know,
pause for a second and I'll let

973
01:01:13,400 --> 01:01:15,100
you know, give a parting shot
too.

974
01:01:15,300 --> 01:01:16,700
To the listeners.
Will they?

975
01:01:16,800 --> 01:01:19,600
Let me just save this Sean.
There's a lot more work were

976
01:01:19,600 --> 01:01:22,100
engaged in.
We've talked a lot about pfos.

977
01:01:22,100 --> 01:01:25,800
We talked about lead and copper.
One of the things we didn't talk

978
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:27,700
about was Waters of the United
States.

979
01:01:27,700 --> 01:01:29,700
That's a rulemaking, we just
finished up.

980
01:01:29,700 --> 01:01:32,400
And at the end of the year,
we're looking forward to a

981
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:35,200
Supreme Court decision in that
matter.

982
01:01:35,200 --> 01:01:38,400
But we're also working in a wide
variety of other areas, one of

983
01:01:38,408 --> 01:01:43,300
the big things that's going on
as climate and the trying to

984
01:01:43,300 --> 01:01:48,100
figure out new ways to Questor
carbon and we're at the

985
01:01:48,100 --> 01:01:52,300
Forefront of that as well in the
office of water because we issue

986
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:57,000
what we call class 6 well
permits to facilities that want

987
01:01:57,000 --> 01:02:02,600
to sequester carbon underground.
So we are working to do that and

988
01:02:02,600 --> 01:02:07,500
we just put out a rule making
that will give Louisiana Primacy

989
01:02:07,500 --> 01:02:13,000
over the classics program.
We are also working as a mention

990
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:18,600
on the consumer confidence rule
We've got a number of LG's.

991
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:23,100
We've been working on, WE issued
a proposal for a steam electric

992
01:02:23,100 --> 01:02:27,200
LG.
We're were coming out with

993
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:33,800
nutrient.
Trading ideas will be coming out

994
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:38,300
with a proposal sometime next
year for microbial.

995
01:02:38,300 --> 01:02:42,800
Disinfection byproducts rule.
There's just a whole host of

996
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:49,200
things that were working on And
there's so many that you know,

997
01:02:49,200 --> 01:02:51,500
it can make your head spin on.
Yeah.

998
01:02:51,500 --> 01:02:53,600
Oh, I can imagine.
I think one thing we didn't

999
01:02:53,600 --> 01:02:56,800
touch on is, you know, circular
economy and water.

1000
01:02:57,800 --> 01:02:59,800
You know, the sustainability
perspective.

1001
01:02:59,800 --> 01:03:02,500
You know, what are the
initiatives that EPA is going to

1002
01:03:02,500 --> 01:03:07,700
push or promote for recycling?
You reuse water.

1003
01:03:08,200 --> 01:03:12,300
You know, there's so much that I
think, you know, to manage water

1004
01:03:12,300 --> 01:03:18,500
more effectively, you know?
So So that seems to be a big

1005
01:03:18,500 --> 01:03:23,800
area that a lot of our clients
are also asking us about, you

1006
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:27,300
know, how do we address circular
economy in the water space?

1007
01:03:27,700 --> 01:03:32,400
Yeah and and in the west water
is a very very pretty.

1008
01:03:32,500 --> 01:03:33,700
Yeah.
That's right.

1009
01:03:33,700 --> 01:03:36,000
We've read about the Colorado
River.

1010
01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:42,700
I know that states in the west
are working to deal with the

1011
01:03:42,700 --> 01:03:47,900
water shortages and And reuse
water and I've been out to

1012
01:03:47,908 --> 01:03:53,500
California where I've been lucky
to be at groundbreakings for

1013
01:03:53,500 --> 01:03:56,800
water reuse projects.
That takes treated Wastewater

1014
01:03:57,100 --> 01:04:02,100
from one treatment plant and
sends it to the reservoir for

1015
01:04:02,100 --> 01:04:06,000
drinking water in another.
And then Super treats it to

1016
01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:11,400
ensure that we reuse the water
in a way that's effective and

1017
01:04:11,400 --> 01:04:15,800
conserves water as well.
There's desalination is issues.

1018
01:04:15,800 --> 01:04:20,500
There's just a whole host of
issues and it's at the Forefront

1019
01:04:20,500 --> 01:04:23,300
of folks in the west.
How are we going to deal with

1020
01:04:23,300 --> 01:04:27,300
the lack of water?
We've got you know this past

1021
01:04:27,300 --> 01:04:33,100
winter, California.
It got a lot of snow and that's

1022
01:04:33,100 --> 01:04:38,300
helped but still water issues
will remain in that state.

1023
01:04:38,300 --> 01:04:42,000
So creative thinking will have
to be done in order to deal with

1024
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:48,300
the water availability Christ.
Is in California and Arizona and

1025
01:04:48,300 --> 01:04:53,200
think about this Sean, the
number of cities that we've got

1026
01:04:53,200 --> 01:04:56,900
that are in areas that are
really deserts, Arizona.

1027
01:04:56,900 --> 01:05:01,600
Nevada, California is, those
those communities are growing

1028
01:05:01,600 --> 01:05:05,400
rapidly.
We will come to grips with.

1029
01:05:05,400 --> 01:05:08,100
How are we going to best provide
the water?

1030
01:05:08,100 --> 01:05:13,200
That's necessary for residents
for Industries and for the

1031
01:05:13,200 --> 01:05:16,500
economy in those?
Areas as well.

1032
01:05:16,500 --> 01:05:18,500
It's a big deal.
It's a big deal.

1033
01:05:18,500 --> 01:05:21,600
It's a big deal.
Well Bruno, hey, thank you for

1034
01:05:21,600 --> 01:05:25,400
coming onto the show today.
Thank you for, you know, having

1035
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:30,300
a great candid conversation with
me, kudos to you and to the EPA.

1036
01:05:30,300 --> 01:05:33,200
All the hard work you're doing
there and we're looking forward

1037
01:05:33,200 --> 01:05:36,800
to, you know, how this new
proposed rule gets implemented

1038
01:05:36,800 --> 01:05:43,300
and finalized and and how you
know the the the lead pipe

1039
01:05:43,300 --> 01:05:47,500
replacement Supply that That you
know, gets enacted and supported

1040
01:05:47,500 --> 01:05:50,000
through local community.
So thank you for coming on and

1041
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:52,500
really, really appreciate it.
Well, it's my pleasure.

1042
01:05:52,500 --> 01:05:55,500
It's great to see you and look
forward to our next chat.

1043
01:05:55,900 --> 01:05:57,900
That's right, we'll do it again
soon hopefully.

1044
01:05:57,900 --> 01:06:00,100
Yeah, great.
All right.

1045
01:06:00,200 --> 01:06:01,500
Thank you.
Thanks, Bruno.

1046
01:06:08,700 --> 01:06:11,100
I want to thank our guests, a
Bruno pigott for coming on to

1047
01:06:11,100 --> 01:06:13,000
the show.
Today if you have questions for

1048
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:15,700
Bruno and want to learn more
about what the EPA is doing to

1049
01:06:15,700 --> 01:06:18,200
protect human health and the
environment and the Waters of

1050
01:06:18,200 --> 01:06:20,800
the United States, you can check
out their website at

1051
01:06:20,900 --> 01:06:28,100
www.opm.gov/tribalprograms know
at pigot dot Bruno at epa.gov

1052
01:06:28,200 --> 01:06:30,600
will also put a link to his
contact information on my

1053
01:06:30,600 --> 01:06:33,200
website to listen to Future
environmental transformation.

1054
01:06:33,300 --> 01:06:36,000
Cremation podcast, you can check
us out on all the major podcast

1055
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:40,700
networks or from my website at
www.shawnacoronado.com.

1056
01:06:41,100 --> 01:06:45,400
Remember, don't forget to follow
us and we'd really appreciate if

1057
01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:48,400
you would write a review for us
about the podcast.

1058
01:06:48,600 --> 01:06:51,500
It also helps increase our
podcast placement, in all the

1059
01:06:51,500 --> 01:06:54,300
podcast networks.
Also, if you're watching on

1060
01:06:54,300 --> 01:06:56,700
YouTube, don't forget to
subscribe to our Channel.

1061
01:06:57,100 --> 01:06:59,400
Thanks for listening.
And until next time, make a

1062
01:06:59,400 --> 01:07:01,800
positive impact in someone's
life today.